Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ZioRen on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 4:34 pm

All I can think when they say things like that is that it MUST be something to do with Luke's portrayal. It's the only thing at this point that would be super divisive to old fans, and Mark Hamill and other things have hinted at it too. Something's going down with Luke that's going to split opinions big time.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Piper Maru on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 4:52 pm

I'm loving these developments. TFA does have a lot of flaws but it offers so many interesting possibilities. I follow J.J. and his work for years and I admire his ability to bring out the best in the actors. So yes, I'm glad he's finishing what he started with the young cast.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 4:53 pm

@ZioRen wrote:All I can think when they say things like that is that it MUST be something to do with Luke's portrayal. It's the only thing at this point that would be super divisive to old fans, and Mark Hamill and other things have hinted at it too. Something's going down with Luke that's going to split opinions big time.
@ZioRen

This or Kylo not being that EVIL that some fans did expect him to be or even Rey getting friendly with Kylo.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 4:55 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:All I can think when they say things like that is that it MUST be something to do with Luke's portrayal. It's the only thing at this point that would be super divisive to old fans, and Mark Hamill and other things have hinted at it too. Something's going down with Luke that's going to split opinions big time.
@ZioRen

This or Kylo not being that EVIL that some fans did expect him to be or even Rey getting friendly with Kylo.
@Darth_Awakened
I can see both of these being divisive for certain old school fans, but not something JJ would disagree with (based on TFA/commentary/interviews).
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Forsythia on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 5:02 pm

Or maybe it has something to do with the "new rules" that Rian created for the Star Wars universe, whatever that meant.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by IoJovi on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 5:05 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:All I can think when they say things like that is that it MUST be something to do with Luke's portrayal. It's the only thing at this point that would be super divisive to old fans, and Mark Hamill and other things have hinted at it too. Something's going down with Luke that's going to split opinions big time.
@ZioRen

This or Kylo not being that EVIL that some fans did expect him to be or even Rey getting friendly with Kylo.
@Darth_Awakened
I can see both of these being divisive for certain old school fans, but not something JJ would disagree with (based on TFA/commentary/interviews).
@FrolickingFizzgig

It's probably a multitude of things. Finn and Rey having little interaction, the likelihood of Luke no longer being the golden child, let alone the main hero, Finn falling for Rose, and last but not least, Kylo not being an irredeemable monster and *gasp*, falling for Rey.

I get giddy when I see the fanboys panties all tied up in knots. I can't wait!!!

As for the December pushback, I'm not shocked at all. While the wait sucks, I'd rather have a quality movie, and I'm glad they're taking their time.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Saracene on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 5:44 pm

@ZioRen wrote:All I can think when they say things like that is that it MUST be something to do with Luke's portrayal. It's the only thing at this point that would be super divisive to old fans, and Mark Hamill and other things have hinted at it too. Something's going down with Luke that's going to split opinions big time.
@ZioRen

I think so too. It doesn't even have to be something drastic like Luke being evil; any less-than-flattering portrayal is going to upset some hardcore fans.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by IoJovi on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 5:47 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:All I can think when they say things like that is that it MUST be something to do with Luke's portrayal. It's the only thing at this point that would be super divisive to old fans, and Mark Hamill and other things have hinted at it too. Something's going down with Luke that's going to split opinions big time.
@ZioRen

I think so too. It doesn't even have to be something drastic like Luke being evil; any less-than-flattering portrayal is going to upset some hardcore fans.
@Saracene

I'm actually quite amazed about what gets people ruled up, especially among the fanboy contingent. You're right, it doesn't even have to be Dark!Luke. All it has to be is Luke no longer being the main Jedi hero that saves everyone, and they'll lose their sith.

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Moonjump05 on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 7:42 pm

Tbh, some fans get so worked up over the tiniest things it could be anything.  It might be something like the MF gets trashed for all we know.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 7:59 pm

@Moonjump05 wrote:Tbh, some fans get so worked up over the tiniest things it could be anything.  It might be something like the MF gets trashed for all we know.
@Moonjump05

I agree. It all depends on the person who talked to them. Maybe Rian's film was too complicated in this person's opinion. Maybe Kylo is too sympathetic. Maybe Rey ends up liking Kylo too much. Maybe Rey flirts with darkness too much. Maybe Luke ain't perfect. (Even though JJ didn't do anything with Luke, people might tell themselves JJ would be better without any logical support at all because Rian makes Luke too antagonistic for their taste and JJ never did something like that). Maybe there aren't enough space battles. Maybe they don't like Finn being ambivalent about the Resistance. Maybe Kylo's awesome TIE blows up too fast. Or maybe the MF gets trashed. There are a million possibilities here.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Birdwoman on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 9:52 pm

Here are my thoughts about why episode 8 might cause division with certain fans:

1. Rey is not Luke's child
2. Luke is messed up, disturbed, corrupeted...not the shinning happy hero from the OT
3. Kylo will be redeemed, because.....FU, we want a new vadar.
4. Jedi/Sith/traditional force user is more murky.
5. Finn and Rey will not be the couple of the trilogy.
6. Rey and Kylo will become allies.

Did I forget something?

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by vaderito on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 9:58 pm

There's no way JJ disagrees with Rian version. KK calls the shots so if TLJ is good for her than it's good for everyone else. Besides, JJ probably had enough input anyway, so that confirms agreement.

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Mana on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 10:00 pm

Well I guess it sucks for them that both JJ and Kasden loved Rian's script for TLJ
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by IoJovi on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 10:00 pm

@Birdwoman wrote:Here are my thoughts about why episode 8 might cause division with certain fans:

1. Rey is not Luke's child
2. Luke is messed up, disturbed, corrupeted...not the shinning happy hero from the OT
3. Kylo will be redeemed, because.....FU, we want a new vadar.
4. Jedi/Sith/traditional force user is more murky.
5. Finn and Rey will not be the couple of the trilogy.
6. Rey and Kylo will become allies.

Did I forget something?
@Birdwoman

I'll take number six a step further. Blatant UST between the villain and the heroine. It doesn't even need to be a kiss. Romantic attraction can encompass more than just that.

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Xylo Ren on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 10:11 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Birdwoman wrote:Here are my thoughts about why episode 8 might cause division with certain fans:

1. Rey is not Luke's child
2. Luke is messed up, disturbed, corrupeted...not the shinning happy hero from the OT
3. Kylo will be redeemed, because.....FU, we want a new vadar.
4. Jedi/Sith/traditional force user is more murky.
5. Finn and Rey will not be the couple of the trilogy.
6. Rey and Kylo will become allies.

Did I forget something?
@Birdwoman

I'll take number six a step further. Blatant UST between the villain and the heroine. It doesn't even need to be a kiss. Romantic attraction can encompass more than just that.

@IoJovi

Full on sex scene with Rey and Kylo. Laughing

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 10:52 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Birdwoman wrote:Here are my thoughts about why episode 8 might cause division with certain fans:

1. Rey is not Luke's child
2. Luke is messed up, disturbed, corrupeted...not the shinning happy hero from the OT
3. Kylo will be redeemed, because.....FU, we want a new vadar.
4. Jedi/Sith/traditional force user is more murky.
5. Finn and Rey will not be the couple of the trilogy.
6. Rey and Kylo will become allies.

Did I forget something?
@Birdwoman

I'll take number six a step further. Blatant UST between the villain and the heroine. It doesn't even need to be a kiss. Romantic attraction can encompass more than just that.

@IoJovi

Full on sex scene with Rey and Kylo. Laughing

@Xylo Ren

Involving a waterfall.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Kylo Men on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 10:56 pm

All I can think of when i read the line about someone not liking the choices Rian made is "What else did George Lucas have to say?"

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by tukicarreno on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 11:36 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Birdwoman wrote:Here are my thoughts about why episode 8 might cause division with certain fans:

1. Rey is not Luke's child
2. Luke is messed up, disturbed, corrupeted...not the shinning happy hero from the OT
3. Kylo will be redeemed, because.....FU, we want a new vadar.
4. Jedi/Sith/traditional force user is more murky.
5. Finn and Rey will not be the couple of the trilogy.
6. Rey and Kylo will become allies.

Did I forget something?
@Birdwoman

I'll take number six a step further.  Blatant UST between the villain and the heroine.  It doesn't even need to be a kiss.  Romantic attraction can encompass more than just that.

@IoJovi
I get it but personally I need a kiss by IX. Enough of subtle Reylo. In IX we need the real thing!
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 12:05 am

@Kylo Men wrote:All I can think of when i read the line about someone not liking the choices Rian made is "What else did George Lucas have to say?"
@Kylo Men

Probably not enough laser swords lol
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Kylo Men on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 12:39 am

It's probably one or more of Dark!Luke, Dark!Rey, or Reylo. Plus Lighter!Kylo.

Given Mark Hamill's statements about disagreeing about the choices surrounding Luke, it makes sense to start there.

I mean, if Luke starts out cranky, but then sees the light, agrees to train Rey and goes and saves the galaxy, what part of that would Hamill disagree with?

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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Lily Snape on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:01 am

@Mana wrote:Well I guess it sucks for them that both JJ and Kasden loved Rian's script for TLJ
@Mana

Remember JJ saying he loved Rian's script so much that he wished he could have directed it himself?  Clearly people are forgetting that.  Good point there.  Smile
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Night Huntress on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:39 am

@IoJovi wrote:
All it has to be is Luke no longer being the main Jedi hero that saves everyone, and they'll lose their sith.

@IoJovi

as if Luke linger on an island somewhere in TFA while the galaxy is in real trouble, isn't a hint enough for them that he is in fact NOT the hero they're hoping for?

I don't think he will be full dark or evil in TLJ but I think it's no longer his responsibility to save the day.
In the trailer he says "It's time for the Jedi to end..." and I agree with him. At least for the Jedi Order we know from the Prequels with all the
stupid rules of "no attachment" no "fear" or "anger" and whatsoever... that's not how a healthy sentient being works. You can't suppress your natural feelings forever without consequences for your mental health.

I know it's not canon anymore, and I hated the character anyway- but maybe some of the EU readers remember Vergere?
She said something I can't forget: "This is the shameful secret of the Jedi: There is no dark side. The Force is one. The Force is everything and everything is the Force. The Force does not take sides. The Force does not even have sides.”

This makes sense to me. The Force is supposed to be an energy field all living beings produce - why should it have "sides"?
My theory is that its easier to manipulate/use this field if you act out of anger/hate/fear but it's also harder to control. And that's why
the Jedi "invented" that rule about the "dark side" and "the light side" - in order to prevent force sensitive beings to lose control and get addicted to the power the could wield.
That would be a great new "reveal" about the force and also open the way for "grey" Jedi... but it's just one theory. Maybe I'm totally wrong Confus
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 1:55 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
All it has to be is Luke no longer being the main Jedi hero that saves everyone, and they'll lose their sith.

@IoJovi

as if Luke linger on an island somewhere in TFA while the galaxy is in real trouble, isn't a hint enough for them that he is in fact NOT the hero they're hoping for?

I don't think he will be full dark or evil in TLJ but I think it's no longer his responsibility to save the day.
In the trailer he says "It's time for the Jedi to end..." and I agree with him. At least for the Jedi Order we know from the Prequels with all the
stupid rules of "no attachment" no "fear" or "anger" and whatsoever... that's not how a healthy sentient being works. You can't suppress your natural feelings forever without consequences for your mental health.

I know it's not canon anymore, and I hated the character anyway- but maybe some of the EU readers remember Vergere?
She said something I can't forget: "This is the shameful secret of the Jedi: There is no dark side.  The Force is one.  The Force is everything and everything is the Force.  The Force does not take sides.  The Force does not even have sides.”

This makes sense to me. The Force is supposed to be an energy field all living beings produce - why should it have "sides"?
My theory is that its easier to manipulate/use this field if you act out of anger/hate/fear but it's also harder to control. And that's why
the Jedi "invented" that rule about the "dark side" and "the light side" - in order to prevent force sensitive beings to lose control and get addicted to the power the could wield.
That would be a great new "reveal" about the force and also open the way for "grey" Jedi... but it's just one theory. Maybe I'm totally wrong  Confus
@Night Huntress

This makes a lot of sense.

In a way, the Force then is not really different from a lot of super powers portrayed in all fiction. Emotions will affect your control. I.e., Raven from Teen Titans. Given that she is half demon, she's technically all Dark Side. So she meditates to control her emotions and reign in her power. When she lets lose, she gets all tentacle-y and demon eyed, but when she's calm, she can use her powers for helpful things. As with Star Fire, her happiness lets her fly, while her righteous anger makes her starbolts.

Same goes for Harry Potter, his anger at Bellatrix for killing Sirius allowed him to fully use the Cruciatus curse, because you really gotta 'mean it', whereas before he couldn't because he didn't feel the needed emotion.

The Force as a lore just had always been the Light and Dark to the eyes of most fans. So the idea that it is just one entity might be difficult to accept since in their childhood, the Light is Good while Dark is Bad.
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Re: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Armadeus on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 2:26 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
All it has to be is Luke no longer being the main Jedi hero that saves everyone, and they'll lose their sith.

@IoJovi

as if Luke linger on an island somewhere in TFA while the galaxy is in real trouble, isn't a hint enough for them that he is in fact NOT the hero they're hoping for?

I don't think he will be full dark or evil in TLJ but I think it's no longer his responsibility to save the day.
In the trailer he says "It's time for the Jedi to end..." and I agree with him. At least for the Jedi Order we know from the Prequels with all the
stupid rules of "no attachment" no "fear" or "anger" and whatsoever... that's not how a healthy sentient being works. You can't suppress your natural feelings forever without consequences for your mental health.

I know it's not canon anymore, and I hated the character anyway- but maybe some of the EU readers remember Vergere?
She said something I can't forget: "This is the shameful secret of the Jedi: There is no dark side.  The Force is one.  The Force is everything and everything is the Force.  The Force does not take sides.  The Force does not even have sides.”

This makes sense to me. The Force is supposed to be an energy field all living beings produce - why should it have "sides"?
My theory is that its easier to manipulate/use this field if you act out of anger/hate/fear but it's also harder to control. And that's why
the Jedi "invented" that rule about the "dark side" and "the light side" - in order to prevent force sensitive beings to lose control and get addicted to the power the could wield.
That would be a great new "reveal" about the force and also open the way for "grey" Jedi... but it's just one theory. Maybe I'm totally wrong  Confus

@Night Huntress

RE: the bolded

This had always been my view of the Force. I mean, if it is part of the natural world, it doesn't make sense that it could have a 'good' and 'evil' side. Nature doesn't work that way. Trees, rocks, rivers, stars, comets, etc., don't have 'good' and 'evil' sides. They just are. They do what they do. Sometimes what they do involves destruction and death, but that's not because they're 'evil'.

Part of my excitement after watching TFA was that the SW movies might finally be moving towards 'the Force is one' viewpoint.
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