The Last Jedi: General Discussion

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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 5:01

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@BigDeal2187 wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Why is Kylo hell bent on finding Luke again? Is it explicitly stated in the novel? I can't remember. To kill him and rid the galaxy of the Jedi, and also who Snoke considers their biggest threat? I definitely think Luke had something to do with Ben's fall. He's definitely being shown as Kylo's antagonist, but do they really want each other dead? Kylo kills his own father so I guess it's safe to assume he'd want his uncle who messed things up for him dead too.
@Cowgirlsamurai
Actually, we don't know. Obviously it was one of Kylo's personal interests in TFA. While Kylo wanted to find Luke himself, Snoke actually just wanted the map destroyed. Nothing about TFA implies that Snoke gives any f***s whatsoever about about Luke or what happens to him as long as he doesn't reunite with the Resistance or bring about the rise of the "new Jedi". The assumption would be that Kylo wants the Jedi gone and therefore wants to kill Luke, but who knows? They haven't seen each other since the night of the temple incident. Luke just vanished. He hasn't been around to see what became of Kylo or Han (though I'm positive he knows full-well). Sad
@FrolickingFizzgig

@BigDeal2187
I know that's the crawl but in all fairness it doesn't specifically refer to Kylo and it also doesn't line up very well with what Snoke said (that he doesn't care if the droid was destroyed or not), but I guess we'll see. I would almost consider that a contradictory error, haha.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah, I don't equate First Order with Kylo entirely since most of the time he seems to have a separate, though related, agenda. He didn't want the map to Skywalker destroyed and he didn't seem too keen on using the super weapon, did he? I think his motivation for seeking out Luke might be more than simply killing him...
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 5:58

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:@SoloSideCousin

FWIW, I didn't see that article debunking anything other than Luke having fallen to the dark side.

Maybe I'm just too optimistic, but after all of the hints we've gotten (the posters! that trailer!), I honestly believe that there's something more going on with Luke other than him being a disillusioned middle-aged man.

If there's a twist where Luke is the main antagonist on Ahch-To, Mark can't give that away in an interview. (And as others have pointed out here with some really good examples, a character can still be an antagonist with being a villain.)  If Luke really believes that Rey (and possibly himself) are too dangerous to return to the rest of the galaxy, that could open up all sorts of nuanced tension. Or maybe the Knights of Rant are onto something with their harbinger of doom theory, which could be super interesting.
@ISeeAnIsland

Same.  Even after this article, I STILL think something is not right with Luke.  Keep in mind that as one half of the protagonist, we’ll be getting Kylo’s point of view.  At this point it’s pretty obvious (as in hammer over the head) that he’s not a one note villain.  There are legitimate reasons why he is the way he is in TFA, and it’s not because he enjoys being bad.  He views Luke in a very negative light. I do believe Luke made some grievous error in judgement.  There’s a reason why his confidence is gone.  

I also agree with @frolickingfizzgig that if Luke is too dark, he potentially has the chance of overshadowing Kylo’s arc.  I’m sure no one here wants that.  At the same time, I still think we’ll be getting something much more interesting than Luke is scared/mad at himself so he hid himself away.  Who knows, he might not just be afraid of Kylo and Rey - he might be afraid of himself as well.  Why, I don’t know, but it sure has me looking forward to December!
@IoJovi

Right.  If one of the two sources connected with Knights of Rant is correct, and "people are really going to freak out over Luke", that sounds like something more going on than Luke simply being disillusioned. And what about the rumored fight between Rey and Luke (per MSW) where she's Force-throwing objects at him?  

Rey gets angry when she feels threatened. I don't see her getting into such a fight over Luke simply refusing to train her or return with her to the Resistance. Something else is going on.
@ISeeAnIsland

Right. Right. You're both right.  My blood sugar was low and I was really frustrated because none of the Dark!Luke advocates on the board had ever really argued for a straight up "Luke falls to the darkside" scenario (unless it was in the context of him being corrupted by some Sith object, in which case he wouldn't be responsible), yet that seemed to be the prevailing perception.

What I didn't like about the article was that by saying Luke "had no confidence in his decision-making."  That would eliminate "in the present Zealous Wrongheaded Force Theory Luke" and "in the present Puritanical/Uber-Lightsider Luke" because that kind of zealotry would require decision-making confidence.  That kind of description, on its face, of not being able to make decisions, also looks like DSMV depression, which I still don't think is an interesting way to go, because how else would Luke be after everything fell apart like that? It would actually be a surprise for him *not* to be depressed, and yet LF was acting like Luke's change would be a big "surprise".  If that "massive" change is just post-Temple-depression, then honestly, what are they making such a big deal about?  And then I thought, "If Luke going into a depression is considered a huge deal, then this is going to be crazy safe."  Hence the aggravation at the possibly huge loss of potential for the material.

However, after reading it again tonight, I agree it does not eliminate the "Harbinger of Doom/Prophecy Luke" (which is an awesome theory), "ParanoidLuke", "MentallyUnstableLuke" because that would require decision-making confusion as well.  It wouldn't even eliminate a Jekyll/Hyde Luke because it would make sense for the Jekyll side to be befuddled.

Also, it does not eliminate, and actually helps an "in the *past* Puritanical/Uber-Lightside Luke", whose arrogance came crashing down on him in the worst way, rather like the PT Jedi, who never seemed to learn the lessons of Anakin, but instead passed on the old rules to Luke.
@SoloSideCousin
I really loved reading about the more extreme Luke theories because most of them were super interesting and could have tackled villainy in SW in a new way, but ultimately I felt every variation of true villainous Luke (be it light-side extremist, possession, Jekyll and Hyde, true dark sider, etc.) that couldn't be largely tackled in the span of a single movie would have overshadowed every other aspect of the storyline. As Vad said, nobody would have talked about anything else.

I never thought you meant cackling, evil Luke, but I'm one who wants Kylo to be responsible for what happened at Luke's temple. Based on Hamill's description I get the sense Luke doted on Kylo to the max, grooming him in lieu of believing him to be part of some greater destiny. There is a parallel to be made here with the Prequel Jedi, except it's possible Luke actually gave in to Kylo a lot more, and that's why he feels responsible. It has nothing to do with perfect, saintly uncle Luke who was betrayed by his bratty early 20's nephew. Kylo cracked under a lot of pressures and whatever went down went down, Luke went straight to Ahch-To for answers about Kylo's destiny and whatever he read there only served to cast him into further doubt. Rey is also part of all this in the best possible way. She's related to that destiny and Luke is going to believe her to be some herald of the same death and suffering he witnessed first-hand with Ben.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 6:15

So, should we read anything into Kylo getting half of the Resistance logo on this new print, while the Resistance peeps don't have a matching FO one but just the Resistance?

Kylo:



Others:

https://sleemo.tumblr.com/post/167189594127/more-framed-star-wars-the-last-jedi-prints-from

Also, too busy but Rey and Kylo heads look really nice with those embers:



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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 6:19

@vaderito wrote:So, should we read anything into Kylo getting half of the Resistance logo on this new print, while the Resistance peeps don't have a matching FO one but just the Resistance?

Kylo:



Others:

https://sleemo.tumblr.com/post/167189594127/more-framed-star-wars-the-last-jedi-prints-from

Also, too busy but Rey and Kylo heads look really nice with those embers:



@vaderito
I don't think we should necessarily read anything into it, just add it to the evidence heap. Laughing

I like the second poster a lot, even if it is busy. Are these official? I don't think I've ever seen that image of Rose before.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 6:25

@Frolickingfizzgig I understood those are official PRINTS. And yes, LOVE Rose prominence.
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 6:30

I was just going to say, Rose is the size she should have been on the damn theatrical poster.

Or the trailers, for that matter.

#whereisrose
#noseriouslywheretheheckisrose
#giveusmorerose
#imnotkiddinglucasfilm
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 6:34

#whereisluke

lol!
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 6:35

@vaderito wrote:@Frolickingfizzgig I understood those are official PRINTS. And yes, LOVE Rose prominence.
@vaderito
These are the rest of them I believe. They don't scream fake to me. Nothing particularly surprising. Love how they write "Resistance Fighter" on both Poe's and Finn's but Rey and Kylo get no similar title.

For contrast, you can see that none of the others has combo logos. Even if they are official I don't know to what degree of official they are, but it's interesting. Like, they could just be outsourced prints for poster sales? But I suppose LucasFilm would still need to provide them with the base images for photoshopping?









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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by Darth Dingbat on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 6:36

I love the one with Poe, Finn, Rose and BB-8 all photoshopped on Ahch-To, and the porg looks at them like, "... who are these people"
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 6:46

@Darth Dingbat wrote:I love the one with Poe, Finn, Rose and BB-8 all photoshopped on Ahch-To, and the porg looks at them like, "... who are these people"
@Darth Dingbat

Well, technically, they could go to Ahch-to in Pinewood. Just not Ireland. remember that Ahch-to is a combo of Ireland and Pinewood like any other studio. Force Tree grows in Pinewood Ahch-to, not Ireland one.

That said, this is just a background, nothing to read into though some fans might. Very Happy
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Re: The Last Jedi: General Discussion

Post by DarthRen on Mon 6 Nov 2017 - 6:52

Finn and Rose have Canto and others things in a separated plot, Poe the Resistance and Leia. Never say never but I think is very likely no matter if they shoot Ireland or Pinewood studios, they're not part of it. Definitely not Finn, Crait is more likely.

This is just an artwork of "heroes" for fans.
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