What REALLY happened at Luke's Jedi "Let's Not Call it an Academy" Place...your thoughts?

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Re: What REALLY happened at Luke's Jedi "Let's Not Call it an Academy" Place...your thoughts?

Post by fuhry on Tue 18 Jul - 17:19

I think the fact that Vader is Luke and Leia's father, and Ben's grandfather, becoming public is being set up to be a huge factor in the story. Leia grew up idolizing the glory of the Republic, before it was destroyed by the Palpatine and the Empire. Luke too, hears Obi-wan wax poetic about the Jedi being the guardians of peace and justice for thousands of generations, before the Empire came along.

But in truth, it's was never so simple. Simply removing the Empire and replacing it with a new 'Republic' doesn't solve all the problems. There is corruption in the New Republic too.

I think the Vader reveal threw shame on the Skywalker family. Leia likely chose to prove her loyalty to the Republic. Luke would be unapologetic, as he sees his father in a more sympathetic light. But with the Republic turned against him, and no desire to redeem himself in their eyes, Luke would kind of have nowhere to go. Ben would feel shame, and anger, at being judged this way, and having not grown up with the Empire, would not feel the hate for the Empire that Luke and especially Leia feel. Perhaps Snoke appealed to Ben by saying he didn't have to be ashamed of who he was.

Also, Luke and Ben may have researched the fall of the Republic and the Jedi. They may have, in a sense, watched the prequels and came away thinking that the questionable ethical compromises of the Jedi, and their embrace of war, was as responsible for Anakin's turn and the fall of the Jedi as anything else.

But more importantly, how would the Republic's turning its back on the Skywalkers affect Luke's Jedi temple training center? Suddenly, Luke is seen as a threat, and so are all of his students. Maybe the Republic attacks the temple. Maybe they arrive demanding that the temple be disbanded. Maybe Ben reacts badly to that. Ben Solo grows up a child of privilege, the son and nephew of heroes. When his family falls out of favor, and his parents and Uncle disagree with him on how to handle that, what is he to do?

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Re: What REALLY happened at Luke's Jedi "Let's Not Call it an Academy" Place...your thoughts?

Post by Darth Dementor on Tue 18 Jul - 20:49

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:I have a headcanon that Ben's bitterness towards his family is far more serious than "Mama and Papa had to work and I was alone".

What if things got really bad in the academy and Luke, somehow, left Ben behind? That would make Ben's anger far more understandable, and if Luke didn't know what he was doing, he wouldn't become a master villain either.
@Piper Maru

Oh, I completely agree that there's going to be a better reason for it than "Mommy and Daddy didn't pay enough attention to me."

The premise of Luke leaving Ben behind an interesting idea.


We've had several hints that Ben was sent to Luke against Ben's (and Han's) choice. If Ben didn't want to be there, and Luke was behind something bad (inadvertently or not), Ben feeling abandoned would be understandable...especially if, perhaps, he'd asked to come home a few times.

My current headcanon has Ben getting sent to Luke, and it's turned out that Luke is a bit of a fanatic at this point, and Ben tries to sound a warning to his parents and gets blown off. At the time of Ben's fall, Luke's followers are planning something bad (in the name of a good cause), which Ben disagrees with....then the Vader reveal happens, the acolytes turn on Ben, and Ben ends up killing them all.
@ISeeAnIsland



The 3:14 mark really fleshes out some strong reasoning why this may be the case.  And what the repercussions of Han's death may play in Leia and Bens(and possibly Chewies) reconnecting.

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Re: What REALLY happened at Luke's Jedi "Let's Not Call it an Academy" Place...your thoughts?

Post by WhatGirl on Fri 21 Jul - 14:20

I think it will be revealed that sending Ben to Luke was a major mistake on Leia's part, especially if Luke was in the beginnings of a light side crusade with no tolerance for dark tendencies in other Force users.

I can see Luke being particularly harsh and controlling with Ben in an attempt to stifle or cleanse the darkness from him, which would accomplish nothing except to fill Ben with self-loathing and resentment. He most likely believed that there was something wrong with him.

Luke, along with his acolytes, could have begun hunting down suspected dark siders with the intention of destroying them. I simply can't see Ben agreeing with this at all, as he is himself equal parts light and darkness.

The acolytes were not younglings and seemed to be just followers of Luke. I believe they were likely not innocent. I imagine they assisted Luke in his bloody crusade and were responsible for the deaths of many dark siders.

Ben finding out that he is in fact the grandson of Vader was probably the point when he realized the murderous hypocrisy of what had been going on and decided to destroy all of the acolytes and to ultimately kill Luke.

But in order to kill Luke, he had to first overcome his sentiment for family. So he went with Snoke, who promised to help him become strong in the dark side, suppress his compassion for family, and finish what Vader started.

Rey finding out about all of this, and possibly even discovering that her own family were victims of Luke/his acolytes, would absolutely cause her to feel differently about Kylo. I think she would forgive him, as will the majority of the audience.
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Re: What REALLY happened at Luke's Jedi "Let's Not Call it an Academy" Place...your thoughts?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 21 Jul - 17:18

@WhatGirl wrote:I think it will be revealed that sending Ben to Luke was a major mistake on Leia's part, especially if Luke was in the beginnings of a light side crusade with no tolerance for dark tendencies in other Force users.

I can see Luke being particularly harsh and controlling with Ben in an attempt to stifle or cleanse the darkness from him, which would accomplish nothing except to fill Ben with self-loathing and resentment. He most likely believed that there was something wrong with him.

Luke, along with his acolytes, could have begun hunting down suspected dark siders with the intention of destroying them. I simply can't see Ben agreeing with this at all, as he is himself equal parts light and darkness.

The acolytes were not younglings and seemed to be just followers of Luke. I believe they were likely not innocent. I imagine they assisted Luke in his bloody crusade and were responsible for the deaths of many dark siders.

Ben finding out that he is in fact the grandson of Vader was probably the point when he realized the murderous hypocrisy of what had been going on and decided to destroy all of the acolytes and to ultimately kill Luke.

But in order to kill Luke, he had to first overcome his sentiment for family. So he went with Snoke, who promised to help him become strong in the dark side, suppress his compassion for family, and finish what Vader started.

Rey finding out about all of this, and possibly even discovering that her own family were victims of Luke/his acolytes, would absolutely cause her to feel differently about Kylo. I think she would forgive him, as will the majority of the audience.
@WhatGirl

I have nothing to add, but I really like the way you put everything together for this theory. I suspect that something like this is probably likely what happened--we certainly haven't heard anything to contradict this.

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Re: What REALLY happened at Luke's Jedi "Let's Not Call it an Academy" Place...your thoughts?

Post by ReyofLightSide on Fri 21 Jul - 18:26

@WhatGirl wrote:I think it will be revealed that sending Ben to Luke was a major mistake on Leia's part, especially if Luke was in the beginnings of a light side crusade with no tolerance for dark tendencies in other Force users.

I can see Luke being particularly harsh and controlling with Ben in an attempt to stifle or cleanse the darkness from him, which would accomplish nothing except to fill Ben with self-loathing and resentment. He most likely believed that there was something wrong with him.

Luke, along with his acolytes, could have begun hunting down suspected dark siders with the intention of destroying them. I simply can't see Ben agreeing with this at all, as he is himself equal parts light and darkness.

The acolytes were not younglings and seemed to be just followers of Luke. I believe they were likely not innocent. I imagine they assisted Luke in his bloody crusade and were responsible for the deaths of many dark siders.

Ben finding out that he is in fact the grandson of Vader was probably the point when he realized the murderous hypocrisy of what had been going on and decided to destroy all of the acolytes and to ultimately kill Luke.

But in order to kill Luke, he had to first overcome his sentiment for family. So he went with Snoke, who promised to help him become strong in the dark side, suppress his compassion for family, and finish what Vader started.

Rey finding out about all of this, and possibly even discovering that her own family were victims of Luke/his acolytes, would absolutely cause her to feel differently about Kylo. I think she would forgive him, as will the majority of the audience.
@WhatGirl

This makes a lot of sense! Luke on a crusade kind of like the Spanish Inquisition?
It explains why Kylo hated LST if LST was part of this as well.
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Re: What REALLY happened at Luke's Jedi "Let's Not Call it an Academy" Place...your thoughts?

Post by snufkin on Fri 21 Jul - 19:42

@WhatGirl - I think you're pretty close to the mark, especially what happened with Luke when he was on his quest for Jedi lore/history and Leia unwittingly threw Ben in the middle of it. The only thing I still am puzzling over with whatever happened to Rey's parents is whether or not Luke had anything to do with it. Only because it seems like the story is setting up the "truth" of Luke Skywalker, man versus myth, and LST's line to Ben about the "truth" of his family. That the bad thing Luke did hurt his own nephew and in learning that truth, it's part of what DR has said "sometimes you meet your heroes and they turn out to be not what you expected." Learning Luke did things which ended up hurting/betraying his sister's only child would change Rey's perceptions of Luke as a hero/good family member and also about Kylo/Ben being a monstah. Especially when they've shown over and over again family and loyalty (to the point of potential self destruction) to your loved ones is Rey's core value/motivator. That's the part I still think will happen, just it may be that she has her perceptions/mission flipped in learning what happened between Luke and Ben. But I definitely think you're right that there is some connection with her family to all of this, that they were hurt as a result of whatever has been going on with the different factions and agendas. Just a question of who's behind their disappearance, Team Luke or Team Snoke.
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