LGBT in Star Wars

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LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Fri 24 Nov - 11:31

Off topic but I wish they made Poe gay. He’s the perfect candidate, a dashing hero everyone loves. It would be awesome to give LGBT people a representation in Star Wars (as JJ said Star Wars should be inclusive). Disney is ballsy enough to do this (LeFou from Beauty and the Beast).
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by panki on Fri 24 Nov - 11:36

@Darth_marshmallow

I'm happy he isn't gay. though I would have been okay with him being bi (more than happy to share Razz)

On a related note, Holdo is an LGBT character so we're getting the first instance of representation in a movie.....I've noticed that the first LGBT character in every medium has been female (Delian Mors in books, Aphra in comics, etc) so not surprised its the same for the movies as well....we'll probably get a male LGBT character in the next trilogy.


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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Fri 24 Nov - 12:02

I have a feeling that any LGBT character’s status as such will only be mentioned in the books/comics... Neutral
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Helix on Fri 24 Nov - 12:12

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I have a feeling that any LGBT character’s status as such will only be mentioned in the books/comics... Neutral
@Cowgirlsamurai

Pretty much. Disney/LF is still too cowardly to make overt LGBT characters on film for the most part, especially a lead or main character. Grow some gozongas and give us movie rep.

I don't care what anyone says tho, Poe likes men.
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by vaderito on Fri 24 Nov - 12:19

I finished reading Leia book. Didn't like it at all. Repetitive, impossibly boring romance, nobody had any personality and LGBT Holdo don't make me laugh! If they didn't point it out in interviews that she was bi I wouldn't know.


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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Fri 24 Nov - 12:20

@Cowgirlsamurai @Helix
Then it's a missed opportunity. I still hope they take Lor San Tekka's words to heart and make things right Wink

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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by panki on Fri 24 Nov - 12:25

@Darth_marshmallow wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai @Helix
Then it's a missed opportunity. I still hope they take Lor San Tekka's words to heart and make things right Wink

@Darth_marshmallow

I think the problem is that some countries might make a fuss about the film being shown in theaters (which happened with BATB as well for that absolutely innocent scene of Le Fou dancing with a man) and LF might not want to get into any controversy that affects their revenue....which is a sad sad thing.

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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Fri 24 Nov - 12:37

@panki wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai @Helix
Then it's a missed opportunity. I still hope they take Lor San Tekka's words to heart and make things right Wink

@Darth_marshmallow

I think the problem is that some countries might make a fuss about the film being shown in theaters (which happened with BATB as well for that absolutely innocent scene of Le Fou dancing with a man) and LF might not want to get into any controversy that affects their revenue....which is a sad sad thing.
@panki

Yeah, I'm aware of Le Fou backlash Crying or Very sad Although, I think Star Wars franchise is strong enough to survive it. Money isn't everything, Disney! Evil or Very Mad
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by vaderito on Fri 24 Nov - 12:42

yeah, Russia slapped 16A rating on BatB cause of Le Fou. When they read about it in the newspapers, not based on the movie itself. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Helix on Fri 24 Nov - 12:45

SW can weather a lot. Made a fine comeback after the prequel debacle, even then, those still made decent money. SW is like a cockroach, hard to kill. Laughing
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Fri 24 Nov - 12:49

@Helix wrote:SW can weather a lot. Made a fine comeback after the prequel debacle, even then, those still made decent money. SW is like a cockroach, hard to kill. Laughing
@Helix

I like your comparison Very Happy
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by panki on Fri 24 Nov - 12:49

@Darth_marshmallow wrote:
@panki wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai @Helix
Then it's a missed opportunity. I still hope they take Lor San Tekka's words to heart and make things right Wink

@Darth_marshmallow

I think the problem is that some countries might make a fuss about the film being shown in theaters (which happened with BATB as well for that absolutely innocent scene of Le Fou dancing with a man) and LF might not want to get into any controversy that affects their revenue....which is a sad sad thing.
@panki

Yeah, I'm aware of Le Fou backlash Crying or Very sad Although, I think Star Wars franchise is strong enough to survive it. Money isn't everything, Disney! Evil or Very Mad
@Darth_marshmallow

I think the franchise is strong enough too but its this weird psychological mentality I have seen both as a lawyer and as someone having a parent involved in drafting laws relating to LGBT rights....people find it easier to accept a female LGBT pairing for some dumb reason (maybe its some male ego thing).....I think Disney/LF's strategy is to first introduce a female character in a medium, check the response and then introduce male characters.
For example, lets see the confirmed LGBT characters in order of appearance:

Books- Delian Mors, Snap Wexley's aunts, Sinjir and Conder, Joph Seastriker's mothers, Holdo and Tarkin (implied)
Comics- Aphra, Pavol and Alecksin, Sana Starros and Magna Tolvan (implied)

They are predominantly female. This makes me think that if a female LGBT character is liked and accepted in movies, then they'll introduce more characters.


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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by vaderito on Fri 24 Nov - 12:53

@Helix wrote:SW can weather a lot. Made a fine comeback after the prequel debacle, even then, those still made decent money. SW is like a cockroach, hard to kill. Laughing
@Helix

there was NO debacle. Just an overblown Internet meltdown which doesn't count. Now PT is enjoying a Renaissance.

@panki Rae Sloane is bi as per Wendig.
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by panki on Fri 24 Nov - 12:56

@vaderito wrote:
@Helix wrote:SW can weather a lot. Made a fine comeback after the prequel debacle, even then, those still made decent money. SW is like a cockroach, hard to kill. Laughing
@Helix

there was NO debacle. Just an overblown Internet meltdown which doesn't count. Now PT is enjoying a Renaissance.

@panki Rae Sloane is bi as per Wendig.
@vaderito

That just reaffirms what I suspect about them making mostly female LGBT characters. Neutral

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LGBT in Star Wars

Post by vaderito on Fri 24 Nov - 13:00

@panki wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Helix wrote:SW can weather a lot. Made a fine comeback after the prequel debacle, even then, those still made decent money. SW is like a cockroach, hard to kill. Laughing
@Helix

there was NO debacle. Just an overblown Internet meltdown which doesn't count. Now PT is enjoying a Renaissance.

@panki Rae Sloane is bi as per Wendig.
@vaderito

That just reaffirms what I suspect about them making mostly female LGBT characters. Neutral  
@panki

Yep, well spotted. It's obvious that there's a bigger tolerance on that side. I wonder how Fantastic beasts is going to handle Dumbledore and Grindewald since they were a canon couple. No wiggling out of this, JKR. Must be addressed.
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Fri 24 Nov - 13:01

@panki wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:
@panki wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai @Helix
Then it's a missed opportunity. I still hope they take Lor San Tekka's words to heart and make things right Wink

@Darth_marshmallow

I think the problem is that some countries might make a fuss about the film being shown in theaters (which happened with BATB as well for that absolutely innocent scene of Le Fou dancing with a man) and LF might not want to get into any controversy that affects their revenue....which is a sad sad thing.
@panki

Yeah, I'm aware of Le Fou backlash Crying or Very sad Although, I think Star Wars franchise is strong enough to survive it. Money isn't everything, Disney! Evil or Very Mad
@Darth_marshmallow

I think the franchise is strong enough too but its this weird psychological mentality I have seen both as a lawyer and as someone having a parent involved in drafting laws relating to LGBT rights....people find it easier to accept a female LGBT pairing for some dumb reason (maybe its some male ego thing).....I think Disney/LF's strategy is to first introduce a female character in a medium, check the response and then introduce male characters.
For example, lets see the confirmed LGBT characters in order of appearance:

Books- Delian Mors, Snap Wexley's aunts, Sinjir and Conder, Joph Seastriker's mothers, and Holdo.
Comics- Aphra, Pavol and Alecksin, Sana Starros and Magna Tolvan (implied)

They are predominantly female. This makes me think that if a female LGBT character is liked and accepted in movies, then they'll introduce more characters.
@panki

Hopefully Smile
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by vaderito on Fri 24 Nov - 13:11

I honestly wouldn't expect much from Holdo cause she is more into different species in the book than the same sex. I mean, the line implied she goes for anything but her interest in aliens vs humans outweighs LGBT connotation.  

But anyway, I don't expect them to have a major character (as in one of leads) any time soon and certainly not with an actual romance. Movies like BatB and the latest Star trek show that such characters and romances are still largely peripheral (aka a bone instead of meat) in blockbuster cinema. I mean, Marvel has been queer-baiting for over a decade yet they don't even have a Le Fou. So yeah, not gonna happen in an impact-ful way in SW. Unless...FB made it central to the plot with Dumbledore/Grindewald and the movie made over 1B than studios would start paying attention. It always takes one thing to blow up for unexpected reason to change Hollywood's perspective. Like how Titanic made female audience the most sought-after demo.


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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by panki on Fri 24 Nov - 13:14

Its funny....LF was a lot more progressive about this pre-Disney acquisiton.... one of my favourite legends characters was Feris Olin who was both gay and a powerful jedi.


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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by vaderito on Fri 24 Nov - 13:17

@panki wrote:Its funny....LF was a lot more progressive about this pre-Disney acquisiton.... one of my favourite legends characters was Feris Olin who was both gay and a powerful jedi.

@panki

They are much more "progressive" in books then in movies. They want to keep conservative markets that bring in a lot of money (Mexico, Brazil, China, Russia, etc).
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Helix on Fri 24 Nov - 13:18

@vaderito wrote:
@Helix wrote:SW can weather a lot. Made a fine comeback after the prequel debacle, even then, those still made decent money. SW is like a cockroach, hard to kill. Laughing
@Helix

there was NO debacle. Just an overblown Internet meltdown which doesn't count. Now PT is enjoying a Renaissance.

@panki Rae Sloane is bi as per Wendig.
@vaderito

PT was def not just internet, per lukewarm reviews and poor word of mouth. It just took time for people to warm up to them. Same thing happened with Alien 3, a lot more apologists and fans for that movie ( including me ) now.
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by vaderito on Fri 24 Nov - 13:27

@Helix wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Helix wrote:SW can weather a lot. Made a fine comeback after the prequel debacle, even then, those still made decent money. SW is like a cockroach, hard to kill. Laughing
@Helix

there was NO debacle. Just an overblown Internet meltdown which doesn't count. Now PT is enjoying a Renaissance.

@panki Rae Sloane is bi as per Wendig.
@vaderito

PT was def not just internet, per lukewarm reviews and poor word of mouth. It just took time for people to warm up to them. Same thing happened with Alien 3, a lot more apologists and fans for that movie ( including me ) now.
@Helix

Poor WOM? Not TPM. Look, these holds are pretty damn fantastic:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars.htm

AOTC held worse but nothing terrible (I've seen acclaimed blockbusters drop like stones):

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars2.htm

ROTS had the worst hold but, again, under 50% second weekend drop is fantastic for an over 100M opener:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars3.htm

Now look at acclaimed Thor Ragnarok, 2 sharp drops:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekly&id=marvel2017.htm

Look at the best MCU movie ever, TWS:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekly&id=marvel14b.htm

Rather sharp drops especially compared to PT movies.
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Helix on Fri 24 Nov - 13:36

@vaderito wrote:
@Helix wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@Helix wrote:SW can weather a lot. Made a fine comeback after the prequel debacle, even then, those still made decent money. SW is like a cockroach, hard to kill. Laughing
@Helix

there was NO debacle. Just an overblown Internet meltdown which doesn't count. Now PT is enjoying a Renaissance.

@panki Rae Sloane is bi as per Wendig.
@vaderito

PT was def not just internet, per lukewarm reviews and poor word of mouth. It just took time for people to warm up to them. Same thing happened with Alien 3, a lot more apologists and fans for that movie ( including me ) now.
@Helix

Poor WOM? Not TPM. Look, these holds are pretty damn fantastic:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars.htm

AOTC held worse but nothing terrible (I've seen acclaimed blockbusters drop like stones):

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars2.htm

ROTS had the worst hold but, again, under 50% second weekend drop is fantastic for an over 100M opener:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=starwars3.htm

Now look at acclaimed Thor Ragnarok, 2 sharp drops:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekly&id=marvel2017.htm

Look at the best MCU movie ever, TWS:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekly&id=marvel14b.htm

Rather sharp drops especially compared to PT movies.
@vaderito

lol okay? SW already had more cred built up on being SW alone than Marvel. Especially with the number of films in Marvel and characters. Box Office websites can't mark WOM and general opinion from years ago. Also that was years ago, the market and movie going in general has changed a lot since 99-2005. Also TPM was the first one, first films tend to fair better as people learn what they're getting into. For a long time, even outside of the net, opinions on the prequels wasn't very positive, which was the thing I was getting at in the first hand.
Anyways, back on topic.

Hope we get a transgender character soon.
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by panki on Fri 24 Nov - 13:52

@Helix

There is a pirate ruler in the books named Eleodie Maracavanya who may be transgender.

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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Helix on Fri 24 Nov - 13:54

@panki wrote:@Helix

There is a pirate ruler in the books named Eleodie Maracavanya who may be transgender.
@panki

Oooh nice! Here's hoping they really are. Very Happy
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Re: LGBT in Star Wars

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Fri 24 Nov - 15:09

If LF and Disney are afraid how LGBT characters would be received in movies, then maybe they should start to imply things without being explicit (Poe’s jacket is a perfect example). They don’t have to make an official statement. At least that would be something.
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