The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:42 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@RosiePancake wrote:@reylo1992
@Darth Dingbat
Spoiler:
Honestly, just like you guys, I also have the same reaction. TLJ is a Reylo feast, it's very romance-centric. Rian really shows you how much he loves his sweetheart (aka. Kylo) and Reylo. Basically, the main plot point of TLJ is Rey and Kylo sensually explore each other while the world burns in any way possible (including reducing the other plotlines and characters to the blandness). And Adam's acting just reaches an insane level of phenomenon, it's so powerful to the point that the audiences and critics couldn't do anything except drool over him and give TLJ 8.5 points on Metacritic (Americans' harshest critic site)!. Even my straight male friend has to admit that Adam is just so alluring in TLJ. It sounds like a Reylo smutty fic, but yes it's TLJ.  I have to admit that half of me loves it so much because we freaking deserve it after 2 years of being abused by antis and toxic fanboys), while the other half feels so conflicted by the way Rian handles the other aspects of SW.
@RosiePancake

I haven't seen the movie yet (Tomorow...tomorrow) but since TFA did nothing for me to care about other aspects of SW outside of Reylo, I won't take it against Rian that he couldn't do better with characters who were beyond salvaging already. TFA dropped the ball on everyone but these 2 cause it tried to play too close to OT and thus giving us bland knock-offs (Poor Man's Rebellion, Poor Man's Han, Poor Man's Empire, etc). Rian smartly focused on the only aspect of TFA that was bold and different and ran away with it while the rest chugged along cause it couldn't have done anything else given TFA cluster.
@vaderito

Spoiler:
That's all fine and dandy, but Rian seriously dropped the ball with Rey and Kylo as well, so what's left?

The only part of TLJ that moved me at all was Finn and Rose, which is why it's such a shame that their plotline was kind of pointless in the larger scheme of things (but then, everything in TLJ was kind of pointless). I expected to cry at Luke's passing (I cried in advance when it was accidentally spoiled to me), but no, I was just staring with a wtf look on my face.

Now that my first shock is wearing off, I'm utterly horrified with what I just saw. Reylo could have been such an epic, moving, meaningful story. I can't believe instead we got a Reylo that's better in gif format than as an actual film. Sexy gifs, meaningless story. Even the Force bond was meaningless in the end.

What are people seeing in this film? Have I lost my mind? Is that it? Or is it a case of Renperor's new clothes?
@Darth Dingbat

[spoiler="Spoiler"]No,you're not! I've always said that I would be okay with any scenario if well done. I had had that kind of ending scenario in mind for a long while even if it didn't turn exactly how I expected. But my problem is not the scenario but the way Rian handled it. In French we say: the most important are not the cards but how you use them. Really the more I think about it, the more I get the feeling that there was som lazy writing here because there are obviously things that Rian didn't wanted to explain (i.e. the Force, Snoke's background, Ben's background,...) and that are cruelly missing in the movie.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Yuugi on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:43 am

I also watched it today and when I left the theater I wasn't sure how I felt about it. Now that it's been a couple of hours and I've processed what I watched, I think it works well if you see it as a second chapter, it's really important to keep that in mind when you go watch it. I'm going again on Friday and I'll have a proper opinion then.

Here's my first impressions:
Spoiler:

-The Reylo scenes are the heart and the best part of this movie IMO. There's so much said through the acting alone, it just blows me away. However, I think they felt rushed. In a movie that felt too long, this is where it felt too short. We really needed more extra scenes between them and I'm sure a big chunk of the deleted scenes must be with them.

- I feel like there's not enough emphasis on the mysticism surrounding their bond, or the force in general. What's this raw powa they seem to share? Why is the force bringing them together? I just don't buy the whole Snoke did it thing. What about Rey dreaming of the island and the force tree, etc. These are such interesting questions, I just wished they'd at least dig into them a bit.

- I need to understand Kylo's motivation for all this, and that's still not clear. He's he just power hungry? Why does he want to rule the galaxy, is this what Vader started? I really feel bad for what made Kylo turn, but it still doesn't make me understand his motivation for wanting to take over the FO. The reason why he turned really does make me understand his trust and abandonment issues, which come into play again when Rey refuses his offer to rule the galaxy later on. I just have trouble understanding Renperor, and I feel the movie still hasn't sold me on that.

- I enjoyed the movie up until they defeated Snoke (which honestly, felt a bit anti-climatic to me. I was hoping they'd defeat them together). After that I felt it all fell apart. I understand Kylo felt betrayed once again when Rey refused to join him, but I don't know. It just hurt to see him like that. And hearing Leia say her son is truly gone just killed me. Also I really disliked the fact that Rey did practically nothing during the Crait sequence, with the emphasis being on Kylo and projection Luke. I really did not enjoy that sequence at all.

- I don't think Kylo is completely irredeemable, especially seeing the last scene with him. But I also feel like all the character progression we've seen throughout the movie gets completely reset by the end. He resisted the pull to the light and now is completely dark... same as in TFA. Well, we'll see.

- One last remark is that I feel that the Kylo/Rey storyline completely steals the movie and I found the other storylines weak in comparison.

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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Ynqve on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:48 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@RosiePancake wrote:@reylo1992
@Darth Dingbat
Spoiler:
Honestly, just like you guys, I also have the same reaction. TLJ is a Reylo feast, it's very romance-centric. Rian really shows you how much he loves his sweetheart (aka. Kylo) and Reylo. Basically, the main plot point of TLJ is Rey and Kylo sensually explore each other while the world burns in any way possible (including reducing the other plotlines and characters to the blandness). And Adam's acting just reaches an insane level of phenomenon, it's so powerful to the point that the audiences and critics couldn't do anything except drool over him and give TLJ 8.5 points on Metacritic (Americans' harshest critic site)!. Even my straight male friend has to admit that Adam is just so alluring in TLJ. It sounds like a Reylo smutty fic, but yes it's TLJ.  I have to admit that half of me loves it so much because we freaking deserve it after 2 years of being abused by antis and toxic fanboys), while the other half feels so conflicted by the way Rian handles the other aspects of SW.
@RosiePancake

I haven't seen the movie yet (Tomorow...tomorrow) but since TFA did nothing for me to care about other aspects of SW outside of Reylo, I won't take it against Rian that he couldn't do better with characters who were beyond salvaging already. TFA dropped the ball on everyone but these 2 cause it tried to play too close to OT and thus giving us bland knock-offs (Poor Man's Rebellion, Poor Man's Han, Poor Man's Empire, etc). Rian smartly focused on the only aspect of TFA that was bold and different and ran away with it while the rest chugged along cause it couldn't have done anything else given TFA cluster.
@vaderito

Spoiler:
That's all fine and dandy, but Rian seriously dropped the ball with Rey and Kylo as well, so what's left?

The only part of TLJ that moved me at all was Finn and Rose, which is why it's such a shame that their plotline was kind of pointless in the larger scheme of things (but then, everything in TLJ was kind of pointless). I expected to cry at Luke's passing (I cried in advance when it was accidentally spoiled to me), but no, I was just staring with a wtf look on my face.

Now that my first shock is wearing off, I'm utterly horrified with what I just saw. Reylo could have been such an epic, moving, meaningful story. I can't believe instead we got a Reylo that's better in gif format than as an actual film. Sexy gifs, meaningless story. Even the Force bond was meaningless in the end.

What are people seeing in this film? Have I lost my mind? Is that it? Or is it a case of Renperor's new clothes?
@Darth Dingbat

I respect your opinions but I have to disagree on several points.

Spoiler:
I thought there was a lot of plot progression and character development.
Luke went from being a bitter, suicidal man stuck in his shame to confronting his mistakes and finding peace in himself and the Force.
Poe embraced his role as a leader and started using his brains.
Finn finally became the hero that he was supposed to be.
Rey let go of her past and embraced her Force powers.

As for the plot - the war took a completely new turn. Now we have the Renpire vs a handful of Resistance fighters. While that may look like a win for the FO, I wonder how long Kylo can keep the FO together, Hux is already starting to undermine him. Also, the story of the Jedi took a new turn as well. I interpreted the Yoda scene as the beginning of a complete reformation of the order.

It's about the same level of plot progression as ESB imo. In ESB the plot is basically: Rebels gets decimated on Hoth, Luke begins to train as a Jedi, Han and Leia fall in love and get captured by the Empire as a way to lure Luke into a trap. Luke escapes the trap. But the war doesn't progress a lot.

I will however add that I think that Rian had to spend a lot of time undoing some of JJ's mistakes and that is an issue

But these are just my opinions, based on a single viewing.


Last edited by Ynqve on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by vaderito on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:48 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:  

Spoiler:
That's all fine and dandy, but Rian seriously dropped the ball with Rey and Kylo as well, so what's left?

The only part of TLJ that moved me at all was Finn and Rose, which is why it's such a shame that their plotline was kind of pointless in the larger scheme of things (but then, everything in TLJ was kind of pointless). I expected to cry at Luke's passing (I cried in advance when it was accidentally spoiled to me), but no, I was just staring with a wtf look on my face.

Now that my first shock is wearing off, I'm utterly horrified with what I just saw. Reylo could have been such an epic, moving, meaningful story. I can't believe instead we got a Reylo that's better in gif format than as an actual film. Sexy gifs, meaningless story. Even the Force bond was meaningless in the end.

What are people seeing in this film? Have I lost my mind? Is that it? Or is it a case of Renperor's new clothes?
@Darth Dingbat

You were bound to hate it cause you hate Renperor. You didn't even like Renperor jokes.  Very Happy That said, I haven't seen the movie so maybe I'll have the same reaction. Renperor wasn't my preferred scenario but I admit that there was no other way and it is more epic than Kylo somehow ending up with the Resistance (and Rey with Snoke).

As for Finn and Rose, correct me if I'm wrong but

Spoiler:
based on eevrything I read including pastebin's subtitles leak, their mission on Canto Bight and Supremacy would have been fine had it not been for Holdo's sacrifice that rendered their plot pointless (cause she basically took care of the tracker that was their mission). I don't know why Rian went with this or added Holdo since the "struggle" within the Resistance strikes me as forced and not adding up to anything. So I don't get the subplot. IMo, they should have just let Finn/Rose do their thing instead of creating extra plot likely to give Poe something to do that justifies expanded screen time. Between Finn and Poe, they should have chosen to preserve the importance of Finn's plot, instead of creating a subplot where a new gimmick character is an unexpected savior of the day.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Ynqve on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:52 am

@vaderito wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:  

Spoiler:
That's all fine and dandy, but Rian seriously dropped the ball with Rey and Kylo as well, so what's left?

The only part of TLJ that moved me at all was Finn and Rose, which is why it's such a shame that their plotline was kind of pointless in the larger scheme of things (but then, everything in TLJ was kind of pointless). I expected to cry at Luke's passing (I cried in advance when it was accidentally spoiled to me), but no, I was just staring with a wtf look on my face.

Now that my first shock is wearing off, I'm utterly horrified with what I just saw. Reylo could have been such an epic, moving, meaningful story. I can't believe instead we got a Reylo that's better in gif format than as an actual film. Sexy gifs, meaningless story. Even the Force bond was meaningless in the end.

What are people seeing in this film? Have I lost my mind? Is that it? Or is it a case of Renperor's new clothes?
@Darth Dingbat

You were bound to hate it cause you hate Renperor. You didn't even like Renperor jokes.  Very Happy That said, I haven't seen the movie so maybe I'll have the same reaction. Renperor wasn't my preferred scenario but I admit that there was no other way and it is more epic than Kylo somehow ending up with the Resistance (and Rey with Snoke).

As for Finn and Rose, correct me if I'm wrong but

Spoiler:
based on eevrything I read including pastebin's subtitles leak, their mission on Canto Bight and Supremacy would have been fine had it not been for Holdo's sacrifice that rendered their plot pointless (cause she basically took care of the tracker that was their mission). I don't know why Rian went with this or added Holdo since the "struggle" within the Resistance strikes me as forced and not adding up to anything. So I don't get the subplot. IMo, they should have just let Finn/Rose do their thing instead of creating extra plot likely to give Poe something to do that justifies expanded screen time. Between Finn and Poe, they should have chosen to preserve the importance of Finn's plot, instead of creating a subplot where a new gimmick character is an unexpected savior of the day.
@vaderito
About Finn and Rose:
Spoiler:
Imo their plotline becomes pointless before Holdo's sacrifice as their mission fails. I love the idea behind their story, I love the class analysis and message about animal cruelty but I wish Rian had found another way to incorporate it.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by vaderito on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:53 am

@RosiePancake wrote:

Yup, Rian is a true madman. He just doesn't give a fuh about fanboys' outrage and straight up brings justice to Reylo fandom. You could tell by watching every Reylo scenes in TLJ, it's so well-made and addicting. While the other characters' scenes are just meh and lack of attraction. Outside Reylo, maybe only Luke truly has a shining moment with his last act. I don't love the other characters as much as i love Reylo, but i just try to be objective here lol. And I wish he invested more in the fantasy theme of SW like the ancient Jedi, the balance of the force, etc... (i do love Reylo's force bond and force projection aka virtual sexual activity, but it's just not enough for me, i want to know moar about the mystical aspect of SW, it's the core of this series Cry )
@RosiePancake

The apparent lack of mythological elements is the biggest bummer to me. I was really hoping for some first-rate new lore that shakes up the foundations of the Force but nope.

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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by vaderito on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:54 am

@Ynqve Renpire and Reysistance Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Sith's just got too epic for words.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Ynqve on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:59 am

@vaderito wrote:@Ynqve Renpire and Reysistance Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Sith's just got too epic for words.
@vaderito

Yes! We all need to start using them!
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:02 am

@vaderito wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:  

Spoiler:
That's all fine and dandy, but Rian seriously dropped the ball with Rey and Kylo as well, so what's left?

The only part of TLJ that moved me at all was Finn and Rose, which is why it's such a shame that their plotline was kind of pointless in the larger scheme of things (but then, everything in TLJ was kind of pointless). I expected to cry at Luke's passing (I cried in advance when it was accidentally spoiled to me), but no, I was just staring with a wtf look on my face.

Now that my first shock is wearing off, I'm utterly horrified with what I just saw. Reylo could have been such an epic, moving, meaningful story. I can't believe instead we got a Reylo that's better in gif format than as an actual film. Sexy gifs, meaningless story. Even the Force bond was meaningless in the end.

What are people seeing in this film? Have I lost my mind? Is that it? Or is it a case of Renperor's new clothes?
@Darth Dingbat

You were bound to hate it cause you hate Renperor. You didn't even like Renperor jokes.  Very Happy That said, I haven't seen the movie so maybe I'll have the same reaction. Renperor wasn't my preferred scenario but I admit that there was no other way and it is more epic than Kylo somehow ending up with the Resistance (and Rey with Snoke).

As for Finn and Rose, correct me if I'm wrong but

Spoiler:
based on eevrything I read including pastebin's subtitles leak, their mission on Canto Bight and Supremacy would have been fine had it not been for Holdo's sacrifice that rendered their plot pointless (cause she basically took care of the tracker that was their mission). I don't know why Rian went with this or added Holdo since the "struggle" within the Resistance strikes me as forced and not adding up to anything. So I don't get the subplot. IMO, they should have just let Finn/Rose do their thing instead of creating extra plot likely to give Poe something to do that justifies expanded screen time. Between Finn and Poe, they should have chosen to preserve the importance of Finn's plot, instead of a new gimmick character an unexpected savior of the day.
@vaderito

Spoiler:
I liked the idea of Renperor very much. Okay, it didn't go exactly as I expected. But it's not the choice of Renperor that disturbs me but the way it was handled. I am truly sorry to tell it and I don't want to ruin the mood but from my side I ended up TLJ having  less emphasis for Kylo than previously and that says a lot. Why? 1) Because Rian didn't explain much about his background, even not revealing to the GA at least what the TFA novel said about it 2) Because after the movie, you can pretty much expect the Antis to spat on Reylo even more and tbh that would be pretty understandable. I even begin to suspect that Rian sort of mocked both sides. He mocked the Antis by giving the Reylos sexy Reylos scenes. But he also mocked overomantic Reylos by making Rey look like she is falling into the dude's arms that easily and finally satisfy the Antis by giving the impression that Kylo is manipulative with her.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:10 am

@vaderito wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:  

Spoiler:
That's all fine and dandy, but Rian seriously dropped the ball with Rey and Kylo as well, so what's left?

The only part of TLJ that moved me at all was Finn and Rose, which is why it's such a shame that their plotline was kind of pointless in the larger scheme of things (but then, everything in TLJ was kind of pointless). I expected to cry at Luke's passing (I cried in advance when it was accidentally spoiled to me), but no, I was just staring with a wtf look on my face.

Now that my first shock is wearing off, I'm utterly horrified with what I just saw. Reylo could have been such an epic, moving, meaningful story. I can't believe instead we got a Reylo that's better in gif format than as an actual film. Sexy gifs, meaningless story. Even the Force bond was meaningless in the end.

What are people seeing in this film? Have I lost my mind? Is that it? Or is it a case of Renperor's new clothes?
@Darth Dingbat

You were bound to hate it cause you hate Renperor. You didn't even like Renperor jokes.  Very Happy That said, I haven't seen the movie so maybe I'll have the same reaction. Renperor wasn't my preferred scenario but I admit that there was no other way and it is more epic than Kylo somehow ending up with the Resistance (and Rey with Snoke).

As for Finn and Rose, correct me if I'm wrong but

Spoiler:
based on eevrything I read including pastebin's subtitles leak, their mission on Canto Bight and Supremacy would have been fine had it not been for Holdo's sacrifice that rendered their plot pointless (cause she basically took care of the tracker that was their mission). I don't know why Rian went with this or added Holdo since the "struggle" within the Resistance strikes me as forced and not adding up to anything. So I don't get the subplot. IMo, they should have just let Finn/Rose do their thing instead of creating extra plot likely to give Poe something to do that justifies expanded screen time. Between Finn and Poe, they should have chosen to preserve the importance of Finn's plot, instead of creating a subplot where a new gimmick character is an unexpected savior of the day.
@vaderito

Spoiler:
Yeah, maybe. I was always going to dislike Renperor, but in the end they gave us Renperor with zero understandable motivation (what happened to Kylo believing he's right? what does he think he's right about? who knows) and I found the story jarring long before Renperor happened. I simply didn't like the film as a film. And believe me, I tried so hard to love it. I was grinning all through the opening crawl and I even laughed at the silly jokes in the first battle sequence and was genuinely moved by Paige's death. But at some point things started going pear-shaped and I still tried so, so hard to like it. You can't believe how disappointing it is to end up hating something you've waited for for two years.

It is what it is. I hope others love it, because I would want Star Wars to continue from strength to strength. I want my disappointment to be just a deeply personal thing of my own.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:19 am

@Ynqve wrote:
Spoiler:
Sorry to hear that you guys didn't enjoy it as much as you'd hoped.


I think I really liked it, but I need to see it again before giving it a score. I do have some initial pros and cons though:

Pros:
Spoiler:
Reylo!
It's a beautiful move. The visuals are amazing.
I loved Luke's arc. The ending was perfect and this is coming from someone who hated projection Luke when it first leaked.
The Resistance plot line with the dwindling fuel and resources reminded me of Battlestar Galactica and that's awesome.
Leia and Holdo's last scene almost broke me.
Great action scenes.
I loved how they managed to make me care about Paige when she was on screen for like 30 seconds. Well done!
Rose was a very sweet addition.
Hux. I love to hate him.

Cons
Spoiler:
Why did they need to go overboard with the mystique around Snoke? If they had just kept him as an evil dude without adding some vague hints to a greater mystery it would have been just fine. Now he's a bit of a let down.
Thought the Force mysteries would be more important but they weren't.
Phasma is underwhelming again.
Superman Leia. I get what they were going for but it looked unintentionally funny.
Rose and Finns story was sweet but completely unnecessary for the plot. It feels like it was just there as a setup for Finnrose.
@Ynqve

Spoiler:
Superman Leia sounds terrible. Made especially worse because it's Carrie's last movie as Leia. I'm dreading seeing it. Is this the "bad cgi" we've been hearing about? Or is that a different scene?
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:24 am

Two things here - I have often been disappointed in a much anticipated film, but on watching it a second time changed my mind. And also.....Rian actually made a three hour film. Perhaps a Director's cut would explain things.
Off to see it tomorrow, weather permitting.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Ynqve on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:24 am

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@Ynqve wrote:
Spoiler:
Sorry to hear that you guys didn't enjoy it as much as you'd hoped.


I think I really liked it, but I need to see it again before giving it a score. I do have some initial pros and cons though:

Pros:
Spoiler:
Reylo!
It's a beautiful move. The visuals are amazing.
I loved Luke's arc. The ending was perfect and this is coming from someone who hated projection Luke when it first leaked.
The Resistance plot line with the dwindling fuel and resources reminded me of Battlestar Galactica and that's awesome.
Leia and Holdo's last scene almost broke me.
Great action scenes.
I loved how they managed to make me care about Paige when she was on screen for like 30 seconds. Well done!
Rose was a very sweet addition.
Hux. I love to hate him.

Cons
Spoiler:
Why did they need to go overboard with the mystique around Snoke? If they had just kept him as an evil dude without adding some vague hints to a greater mystery it would have been just fine. Now he's a bit of a let down.
Thought the Force mysteries would be more important but they weren't.
Phasma is underwhelming again.
Superman Leia. I get what they were going for but it looked unintentionally funny.
Rose and Finns story was sweet but completely unnecessary for the plot. It feels like it was just there as a setup for Finnrose.
@Ynqve

Spoiler:
Superman Leia sounds terrible. Made especially worse because it's Carrie's last movie as Leia. I'm dreading seeing it. Is this the "bad cgi" we've been hearing about? Or is that a different scene?
@Cowgirlsamurai

Spoiler:
I'm not sure but it could be. It happens after she get's spaced. She uses the Force to float on board the Raddus again but it just looks stupid because she has her arm stretched forward in a Superman pose and the dress is flowing. But thankfully she has other moments to shine.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by special_cases on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:26 am



@motherofpearl1 wrote:Two things here - I have often been disappointed in a much anticipated film, but on watching it a second time changed my mind. And also.....Rian actually made a three hour film. Perhaps a Director's cut would explain things.
Off to see it tomorrow, weather permitting.
@motherofpearl1

He said that there won't be a director's cut Sad

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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Ynqve on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:27 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Two things here - I have often been disappointed in a much anticipated film, but on watching it a second time changed my mind. And also.....Rian actually made a three hour film. Perhaps a Director's cut would explain things.
Off to see it tomorrow, weather permitting.
@motherofpearl1

This is definitely a film that needs to be seen two or three times. And given what he kept in the movie, I wonder what he cut out. It's possible that some plots suffered a lot because he cut out significant parts of them to focus on Luke and Reylo.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:31 am

@Ynqve wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Two things here - I have often been disappointed in a much anticipated film, but on watching it a second time changed my mind. And also.....Rian actually made a three hour film. Perhaps a Director's cut would explain things.
Off to see it tomorrow, weather permitting.
@motherofpearl1

This is definitely a film that needs to be seen two or three times. And given what he kept in the movie, I wonder what he cut out. It's possible that some plots suffered a lot because he cut out significant parts of them to focus on Luke and Reylo.
@Ynqve

The same for me. That's why I need to see it once again. To temper my initial reaction and I am sure I will find it more satisfying.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:37 am

@special_cases wrote:

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Two things here - I have often been disappointed in a much anticipated film, but on watching it a second time changed my mind. And also.....Rian actually made a three hour film. Perhaps a Director's cut would explain things.
Off to see it tomorrow, weather permitting.
@motherofpearl1

He said that there won't be a director's cut Sad
@special_cases

Sorry to hear that.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Ynqve on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:40 am

@reylo1992 wrote:
@Ynqve wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Two things here - I have often been disappointed in a much anticipated film, but on watching it a second time changed my mind. And also.....Rian actually made a three hour film. Perhaps a Director's cut would explain things.
Off to see it tomorrow, weather permitting.
@motherofpearl1

This is definitely a film that needs to be seen two or three times. And given what he kept in the movie, I wonder what he cut out. It's possible that some plots suffered a lot because he cut out significant parts of them to focus on Luke and Reylo.
@Ynqve

The same for me. That's why I need to see it once again. To temper my initial reaction and I am sure I will find it more satisfying.
@reylo1992

I hope it works! I'm already sold on the movie, but there's a lot to process. I'm not sure if I like the complete movie as much as I like the individual parts. Only thing I'm sure of is that it's the prettiest SW movie. My jaw dropped when
Spoiler:
Holdo jumped to lightspeed through the Supremacy.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:42 am

One line from the movie:
Bomb away! In case you doubt it is in the movie Wink
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:46 am

@reylo1992 wrote:
One line from the movie:
Bomb away! In case you doubt it is in the movie Wink
@reylo1992

Spoiler:
It's funny that lines from both leaked soundtracks were in the film. "Bombs Away", "Chrome Dome", "Peace and Purpose" and so on. I wonder which one is correct in the end.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by vaderito on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:40 am

Do Rey and Kylo have a special theme and do Finn and Rose too?
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by ZioRen on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:44 am

I have a question:

About Kylo and Luke:
Is the tone of Luke toward Kylo as bad and bleak as all of the things I've seen make it sound? Because from the dialogue and a couple of clips, it really seems like Luke is just 'screw this guy' at the end, especially during the fight scene where he says very flatly that he has no interest in 'saving Ben's soul'. An attitude I find sort of disturbing and strange considering how the whole thing began in the first place. 

If even Luke Skywalker, despite everything, dislikes and is brushing Kylo off, how do we get the impression that Kylo is redeemable? Luke's characterization in this confuses me a lot--it's just not the Luke the OT showed us. The man who forgave and saw the good in his father despite not knowing him whatsoever and only seeing him do evil.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:52 am

@ZioRen wrote:I have a question:

About Kylo and Luke:
Is the tone of Luke toward Kylo as bad and bleak as all of the things I've seen make it sound? Because from the dialogue and a couple of clips, it really seems like Luke is just 'screw this guy' at the end, especially during the fight scene where he says very flatly that he has no interest in 'saving Ben's soul'. An attitude I find sort of disturbing and strange considering how the whole thing began in the first place. 

If even Luke Skywalker, despite everything, dislikes and is brushing Kylo off, how do we get the impression that Kylo is redeemable? Luke's characterization in this confuses me a lot--it's just not the Luke the OT showed us. The man who forgave and saw the good in his father despite not knowing him whatsoever and only seeing him do evil.
@ZioRen

Spoiler:

That's one of the many things that felt incredibly jarring to me. There was such a disconnect between the fact that Luke was supposedly responsible for finally pushing Ben to the Dark Side in the first place (though this was never properly explored at all), and the fact that he seemed very "screw this guy" towards the monster he had created (again, supposedly? like we know next to nothing about the backstory).

He does say something like "no one is ever truly gone" (can't remember the exact wording) when Leia says her son is gone, so I'm pretty sure that is again ***foreshadowing***.

Perhaps others more intelligent than me will get something else out of it. But I saw nothing positive or regretful in Luke's attitude towards Kylo in the end.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by ZioRen on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:59 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:I have a question:

About Kylo and Luke:
Is the tone of Luke toward Kylo as bad and bleak as all of the things I've seen make it sound? Because from the dialogue and a couple of clips, it really seems like Luke is just 'screw this guy' at the end, especially during the fight scene where he says very flatly that he has no interest in 'saving Ben's soul'. An attitude I find sort of disturbing and strange considering how the whole thing began in the first place. 

If even Luke Skywalker, despite everything, dislikes and is brushing Kylo off, how do we get the impression that Kylo is redeemable? Luke's characterization in this confuses me a lot--it's just not the Luke the OT showed us. The man who forgave and saw the good in his father despite not knowing him whatsoever and only seeing him do evil.
@ZioRen

Spoiler:

That's one of the many things that felt incredibly jarring to me. There was such a disconnect between the fact that Luke was supposedly responsible for finally pushing Ben to the Dark Side in the first place (though this was never properly explored at all), and the fact that he seemed very "screw this guy" towards the monster he had created (again, supposedly? like we know next to nothing about the backstory).

He does say something like "no one is ever truly gone" (can't remember the exact wording) when Leia says her son is gone, so I'm pretty sure that is again ***foreshadowing***.

Perhaps others more intelligent than me will get something else out of it. But I saw nothing positive or regretful in Luke's attitude towards Kylo in the end.
@Darth Dingbat

Spoiler:
The lack of regret sounds so damn weird and jarring considering what Luke did and doesn't deny he did. Something like that is an incredible betrayal, and even if Kylo knew that Luke immediately regretted it, it's understandable that he would hate and never trust his uncle again. The uncle who was supposed to guide and protect him. Yet here is Luke at the end acting like his hands are washed of this and not seeming remorseful in the slightest for considering killing the boy, his nephew, whose life and future was entrusted to him. In his sleep no less. Like....what? Especially if (I've seen other people say, at least) it's mentioned that Snoke has been in Ben's head and manipulating him up to that point.

And the fact that, based on the dialogue, he compares Kylo cutting him down to cutting down Han and says he'll live with the guilt sounds frankly laughable considering the backstory. Kylo seems to have every reason to want Luke dead, and it's not at all a comparable scenario to his feelings for his father.

Does Leia even know what happened as she decides her son is gone for good? Because if she does, I'm not sure what to think anymore.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Ynqve on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:05 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:I have a question:

About Kylo and Luke:
Is the tone of Luke toward Kylo as bad and bleak as all of the things I've seen make it sound? Because from the dialogue and a couple of clips, it really seems like Luke is just 'screw this guy' at the end, especially during the fight scene where he says very flatly that he has no interest in 'saving Ben's soul'. An attitude I find sort of disturbing and strange considering how the whole thing began in the first place. 

If even Luke Skywalker, despite everything, dislikes and is brushing Kylo off, how do we get the impression that Kylo is redeemable? Luke's characterization in this confuses me a lot--it's just not the Luke the OT showed us. The man who forgave and saw the good in his father despite not knowing him whatsoever and only seeing him do evil.
@ZioRen

Spoiler:

That's one of the many things that felt incredibly jarring to me. There was such a disconnect between the fact that Luke was supposedly responsible for finally pushing Ben to the Dark Side in the first place (though this was never properly explored at all), and the fact that he seemed very "screw this guy" towards the monster he had created (again, supposedly? like we know next to nothing about the backstory).

He does say something like "no one is ever truly gone" (can't remember the exact wording) when Leia says her son is gone, so I'm pretty sure that is again ***foreshadowing***.

Perhaps others more intelligent than me will get something else out of it. But I saw nothing positive or regretful in Luke's attitude towards Kylo in the end.
@Darth Dingbat

Spoiler:
The lack of regret sounds so damn weird and jarring considering what Luke did and doesn't deny he did. Something like that is an incredible betrayal, and even if Kylo knew that Luke immediately regretted it, it's understandable that he would hate and never trust his uncle again. The uncle who was supposed to guide and protect him. Yet here is Luke at the end acting like his hands are washed of this and not seeming remorseful in the slightest for considering killing the boy, his nephew, whose life and future was entrusted to him. In his sleep no less. Like....what? Especially if (I've seen other people say, at least) it's mentioned that Snoke has been in Ben's head and manipulating him up to that point.

And the fact that, based on the dialogue, he compares Kylo cutting him down to cutting down Han and says he'll live with the guilt sounds frankly laughable considering the backstory. Kylo seems to have every reason to want Luke dead, and it's not at all a comparable scenario to his feelings for his father.

Does Leia even know what happened as she decides her son is gone for good? Because if she does, I'm not sure what to think anymore.
@ZioRen

That's not what I saw at all.
Spoiler:
To me Luke is broken to the point of becoming suicidal because of what happened with Ben. He's stuck in his shame and guilt which is why he's so afraid to train Rey - he thinks that he's going to fail her as well. The fight between Luke and Kylo is all about Luke confronting his failure and overcoming his shame. Once that is over, Luke is finally at peace and ascends to become one with the Force.
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