The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 11:43

@Darth_marshmallow wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’m not as angry at Leia as I was before. I finally understand why she didn’t confront Kylo on Crait. All this time she blamed Snoke for Ben’s actions. After Snoke’s death, I think she’s coming to terms with the fact that the darkness in her son is his own. Kylo himself must decide to come back to the light. I think many things were cut in the editing. As a result the characterisation suffers and it seems that there is no real depth.
@Darth_marshmallow

how did Leia even know Snoke is dead? Nope

I'm angry at her- even more than in TFA... she failed her son in so many ways it hurts for me thinking about it.
I wanted to cheer Kylo for blowing up the resistance hangar with Poe's X-Wing... Leia never tried to reach out to her son.
First she sent Han after him and than Luke- I'm not sure if she realized he is only a projection, but that's not the point.
Anyway she behaves the whole time like she didn't even has a son. Like he isn't her problem or responsibility.

Funny thing - she is very much like her "lost son". Too invested in her own cause to realize what really matters- the people you care about and suppose to love.
@Night Huntress

I noticed that. So many forget Kylo was abused.

@Xylo Ren wrote:If they set up Poe's character so that he can be a selfless sacrifice in IX I'd be fine with it. Let him go in an honorable way that kinda redeems the douchery I saw in TLJ. I liked him in TFA so I'm totally open to liking him again.

Regardless, he needs less screen time in IX.
@Xylo Ren
Actually I see that as happening.


@DeeBee

I do not see Ben/Kylo as dark. I see him as a victim. He was let down by everyone - his parents, his uncle, his mentor. No wonder he was disillusioned. I really H
@motherofpearl1

Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought that one of the main reasons for Leia to found the Resistance was to get her son back. Especially, if she blamed Snoke for Ben’s darkness.
@Darth_marshmallow

Nope. If you read the canon novel Bloodline, it goes into Leia founding the Resistance. Ben hasn't fallen yet at that point (as far as she knows)...he's been off with Luke, and she hasn't talked to either of them in quite some time.

Leia forms the Resistance as a reaction to discovering the First Order and its accumulation of military and political power. It reminds her too much of the Empire.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by MeadowofAshes on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 13:14

@Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’ve been thinking about JJ words about the dark side awakening in the villain and how Kylo is not a fully realised villain yet. From that perspective, I believe that Renperor alongside Reylo was planned from the beginning. We can’t fully sympahise with Kylo in episode 8 because we still need a big bad in the story. Maybe that’s the reason why we didn’t get Snoke’s backstory of how he got to young Ben. It would make him too sympathetic to the audience and his redemption arc too obvious. I’m 100% sure Kylo will be redemed in some way in episode 9 and there’s a chance that we will get a flashback from his childhood.
@Darth_marshmallow

Plus they still have Leia's story with Ben to wrap up. I feel like this would be the most appropriate place to put a Kid!Ben scene - with his mother, who felt him trying to escape a dark force in her womb and who then sent him to train with Luke as a kid when she figured out it was Snoke.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by DeeBee on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 14:13

@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’m not as angry at Leia as I was before. I finally understand why she didn’t confront Kylo on Crait. All this time she blamed Snoke for Ben’s actions. After Snoke’s death, I think she’s coming to terms with the fact that the darkness in her son is his own. Kylo himself must decide to come back to the light. I think many things were cut in the editing. As a result the characterisation suffers and it seems that there is no real depth.
@Darth_marshmallow

how did Leia even know Snoke is dead? Nope

I'm angry at her- even more than in TFA... she failed her son in so many ways it hurts for me thinking about it.
I wanted to cheer Kylo for blowing up the resistance hangar with Poe's X-Wing... Leia never tried to reach out to her son.
First she sent Han after him and than Luke- I'm not sure if she realized he is only a projection, but that's not the point.
Anyway she behaves the whole time like she didn't even has a son. Like he isn't her problem or responsibility.

Funny thing - she is very much like her "lost son". Too invested in her own cause to realize what really matters- the people you care about and suppose to love.
@Night Huntress

I noticed that. So many forget Kylo was abused.

@Xylo Ren wrote:If they set up Poe's character so that he can be a selfless sacrifice in IX I'd be fine with it. Let him go in an honorable way that kinda redeems the douchery I saw in TLJ. I liked him in TFA so I'm totally open to liking him again.

Regardless, he needs less screen time in IX.
@Xylo Ren
Actually I see that as happening.


@DeeBee

I do not see Ben/Kylo as dark. I see him as a victim. He was let down by everyone - his parents, his uncle, his mentor. No wonder he was disillusioned. I really H
@motherofpearl1

Hi @motherofpearl1, oh no your reply to me seemed to get cut off? That's happened to me in the last couple of days too.
Just to address your reply - I agree with you that Ben is a victim, he was let down by everyone - and it is totally understandable why he became disillusioned.

In a separate comment you also wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote: I feel so much compassion for Ben...I think he just wants to be loved for himself. Yet everyone sees his power rather than the man.

I think this may be a continuation of your thought here?
Anyway, again - I agree with you - I too feel lots of compassion for Ben.
Yes- deep down what he longs for is to be loved.

I think when RJ talked about the movie being full of ambiguity - maybe this was not just about FO and the resistance both buying ships from the same people.. it can be an internal ambiguity also.. Kylo/Ben is a prime example of this - both the villain and the victim, the one who is hurting and the one who hurts. The one I want to slap, and the one I want to comfort.. He is all of it tied up together - not 100% evil nor 100% good-there is no black and white.

This is why I can simultaneously have my heart break for this character (it has and it did) and all he has been through and is going through, root for this character, and call out his efforts to manipulate Rey, his cruel words, and his poor choices. It's all mixed up together in this character's journey.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Night Huntress on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 14:51

So, just back from my second watching. Styled

It was a different experience than the first... I was a bit afraid all the negativ reactions and reviews I've read since the first viewing will ruin the magic feeling... It didn't. Quite the contrary- I loved it even more. Err no

Yes, the movie has it's flaws and I clearly saw why some people complaining about certain things... but overall it was so beautiful.

Even my husband - who fell asleep watching TFA Rolling Eyes . was into it the whole 2 ½ hours. He talked like Yoda the whole why back home (such a child geek )

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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by cirelle on Tue 19 Dec 2017 - 23:59

I saw the film last Friday and took some time to think about it. At first I wasn't sure how to describe it. I really liked the film despite some middle parts dragging on. Some CG also looked a bit bad to me. Poe's plot causing most of the Resistance to get wiped still makes me go "what?". Overall, the film aimed to shake things up and teach everyone a lesson. The more I think about Luke's last stand, the more I love it. It really gave everyone another chance under impossible odds. The dice symbolism works so good. As a Luke fan, I hope more people will come around to how TLJ portrays his heroism instead of criticizing his moment of weakness and for not slashing everyone to bits. Rey and Ben scenes were more than I ever asked for. The set design and the usage of sound was brilliant. Their last scenes were so heartbreaking for me. JJ, don't drop this in EpIX, and please bring Ben home!

From my mixed gender viewing group, everyone wanted to talk about the shirtless scene first. I didn't get the impression any of them were on board with romance or shipping, but this group is less into romance and have expressed lack of desire for it after TFA. I think Anidala still triggers a lot of them. A bit of a disappoint as a Reylo fan that I had no one to share it with. However, I later chatted with two fanboy friends. The first friend had a "it's OK" reaction with the same general criticisms, no super Luke or Snoke reveal. The second acknowledged Reylo by name and ships it hard. I cried tears of joy.

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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Wed 20 Dec 2017 - 0:10

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’ve been thinking about JJ words about the dark side awakening in the villain and how Kylo is not a fully realised villain yet. From that perspective, I believe that Renperor alongside Reylo was planned from the beginning. We can’t fully sympahise with Kylo in episode 8 because we still need a big bad in the story. Maybe that’s the reason why we didn’t get Snoke’s backstory of how he got to young Ben. It would make him too sympathetic to the audience and his redemption arc too obvious. I’m 100% sure Kylo will be redemed in some way in episode 9 and there’s a chance that we will get a flashback from his childhood.
@Darth_marshmallow

Plus they still have Leia's story with Ben to wrap up. I feel like this would be the most appropriate place to put a Kid!Ben scene - with his mother, who felt him trying to escape a dark force in her womb and who then sent him to train with Luke as a kid when she figured out it was Snoke.
@MeadowofAshes

Yes! I'm hoping this will happen. Please, JJ please!
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Wed 20 Dec 2017 - 0:36

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:I’m not as angry at Leia as I was before. I finally understand why she didn’t confront Kylo on Crait. All this time she blamed Snoke for Ben’s actions. After Snoke’s death, I think she’s coming to terms with the fact that the darkness in her son is his own. Kylo himself must decide to come back to the light. I think many things were cut in the editing. As a result the characterisation suffers and it seems that there is no real depth.
@Darth_marshmallow

how did Leia even know Snoke is dead? Nope

I'm angry at her- even more than in TFA... she failed her son in so many ways it hurts for me thinking about it.
I wanted to cheer Kylo for blowing up the resistance hangar with Poe's X-Wing... Leia never tried to reach out to her son.
First she sent Han after him and than Luke- I'm not sure if she realized he is only a projection, but that's not the point.
Anyway she behaves the whole time like she didn't even has a son. Like he isn't her problem or responsibility.

Funny thing - she is very much like her "lost son". Too invested in her own cause to realize what really matters- the people you care about and suppose to love.
@Night Huntress

I noticed that. So many forget Kylo was abused.

@Xylo Ren wrote:If they set up Poe's character so that he can be a selfless sacrifice in IX I'd be fine with it. Let him go in an honorable way that kinda redeems the douchery I saw in TLJ. I liked him in TFA so I'm totally open to liking him again.

Regardless, he needs less screen time in IX.
@Xylo Ren
Actually I see that as happening.


@DeeBee

I do not see Ben/Kylo as dark. I see him as a victim. He was let down by everyone - his parents, his uncle, his mentor. No wonder he was disillusioned. I really H
@motherofpearl1

Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought that one of the main reasons for Leia to found the Resistance was to get her son back. Especially, if she blamed Snoke for Ben’s darkness.
@Darth_marshmallow

Nope. If you read the canon novel Bloodline, it goes into Leia founding the Resistance. Ben hasn't fallen yet at that point (as far as she knows)...he's been off with Luke, and she hasn't talked to either of them in quite some time.

Leia forms the Resistance as a reaction to discovering the First Order and its accumulation of military and political power. It reminds her too much of the Empire.
@ISeeAnIsland
I think I'm starting to dislike Leia.
Question for those of you who have seen the movie several times: was Leia aware that Luke tried to kill her son? Is it clear in TLJ?
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Night Huntress on Wed 20 Dec 2017 - 1:16

@Darth_marshmallow wrote:
Question for those of you who have seen the movie several times: was Leia aware that Luke tried to kill her son? Is it clear in TLJ?
@Darth_marshmallow

No, it's not. Luke says to Leia that he is sorry before going out facing Ben, but it's not clear what exactly he is sorry for... - of course he feels responsible for Ben's fall, but details of what exactly happened were never mentioned to Leia- at least not in the movie.

I'm not sure it would've made a difference to Leia anyway Nope
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 20 Dec 2017 - 1:26

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:
Question for those of you who have seen the movie several times: was Leia aware that Luke tried to kill her son? Is it clear in TLJ?
@Darth_marshmallow

No, it's not. Luke says to Leia that he is sorry before going out facing Ben, but it's not clear what exactly he is sorry for... - of course he feels responsible for Ben's fall, but details of what exactly happened were never mentioned to Leia- at least not in the movie.

I'm not sure it would've made a difference to Leia anyway Nope
@Night Huntress

Speaking of this.
It suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks: How would Han have reacted to the truth on what really happened at Luke's camp.

Han shot first?
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Ynqve on Wed 20 Dec 2017 - 1:37

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@Darth_marshmallow wrote:
Question for those of you who have seen the movie several times: was Leia aware that Luke tried to kill her son? Is it clear in TLJ?
@Darth_marshmallow

No, it's not. Luke says to Leia that he is sorry before going out facing Ben, but it's not clear what exactly he is sorry for... - of course he feels responsible for Ben's fall, but details of what exactly happened were never mentioned to Leia- at least not in the movie.

I'm not sure it would've made a difference to Leia anyway Nope
@Night Huntress

Speaking of this.
It suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks: How would Han have reacted to the truth on what really happened at Luke's camp.

Han shot first?
@Darth_Awakened

Wow. I never thought I'd find a way to be happy about Han's death but I'm so glad he never found out. It wouldn't have been pretty.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Night Huntress on Wed 20 Dec 2017 - 1:55

@Ynqve wrote:


Wow. I never thought I'd find a way to be happy about Han's death but I'm so glad he never found out. It wouldn't have been pretty.

@Ynqve

unlike Leia I think it would've mattered to Han- very much!!! He would've confronted Luke about that for sure!
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Ynqve on Wed 20 Dec 2017 - 2:21

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Ynqve wrote:


Wow. I never thought I'd find a way to be happy about Han's death but I'm so glad he never found out. It wouldn't have been pretty.

@Ynqve

unlike Leia I think it would've mattered to Han- very much!!! He would've confronted Luke about that for sure!
@Night Huntress

Yeah, there's no way they could have salvaged Han and Luke's relationship. How do you forgive your friend for attempting to murder your child in their sleep? Or pushing your kid into the arms of an abusive monster?

It's sad to think that the best thing to happen to the OT3 is that Han died before the truth came out. The ending of RotJ was already bittersweet after TFA, it's even worse now.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by RosiePancake on Wed 20 Dec 2017 - 2:38

@Ynqve wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@Ynqve wrote:


Wow. I never thought I'd find a way to be happy about Han's death but I'm so glad he never found out. It wouldn't have been pretty.

@Ynqve

unlike Leia I think it would've mattered to Han- very much!!! He would've confronted Luke about that for sure!
@Night Huntress

Yeah, there's no way they could have salvaged Han and Luke's relationship. How do you forgive your friend for attempting to murder your child in their sleep? Or pushing your kid into the arms of an abusive monster?

It's sad to think that the best thing to happen to the OT3 is that Han died before the truth came out. The ending of RotJ was already bittersweet after TFA, it's even worse now.
@Ynqve

Yeah, the more you think about, the more you realize how tragic it is. And killing Kylo can't archive anything, it won't get a vengeance for Han like fanboys think. Han could be a thousand times heartbroken again in his afterlife if he knows what happened to his own son and how his friend treated him.
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