Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by nickandnora on Thu 01 Feb 2018, 9:25 pm

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but I happened to stumble upon a few comments about Rey and Kylo's interrogation scene from before TLJ came out (it's not important which ones - some were on reddit, and some were on youtube). They had to do with Kylo saying "You imagine an ocean; I see it. I see the island." So most of the comments are basically like:

"Rey had premonitions of Luke's island!"
"Kylo was seeing Luke's island and didn't even realize it, lol!"
"The island at the end was the island Rey has pictured her whole life, OMG."

But... isn't this in the same vein as Maz's "There's someone who still could (come back)"? The story rather coyly wants you to think "it's Luke!" Similarly the story kind of wants you to think "Ahch-To is THE island she used to imagine!" But... it's probably not. I mean, maybe in some ways, but not really. (Which is kind of similar to Luke returning... he kind of does, but... not really).

Also: I took those lines about the island to mean that it's something that Rey pictures to escape from the dreary reality of her life on Jakku. Just like she projects "father figure" onto Han and then onto Luke, she later might be projecting "this is my island" onto Ahch-To when she first sees it... but it's not.

My point: we haven't encountered the actual person who comes back in the narrative yet, and we haven't encountered Rey's island yet. Does everyone agree, or was I just reading the island thing wrong?

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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 01 Feb 2018, 9:43 pm

@nickandnora wrote:I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but I happened to stumble upon a few comments about Rey and Kylo's interrogation scene from before TLJ came out (it's not important which ones - some were on reddit, and some were on youtube). They had to do with Kylo saying "You imagine an ocean; I see it. I see the island." So most of the comments are basically like:

"Rey had premonitions of Luke's island!"
"Kylo was seeing Luke's island and didn't even realize it, lol!"
"The island at the end was the island Rey has pictured her whole life, OMG."

But... isn't this in the same vein as Maz's "There's someone who still could (come back)"? The story rather coyly wants you to think "it's Luke!" Similarly the story kind of wants you to think "Ahch-To is THE island she used to imagine!" But... it's probably not. I mean, maybe in some ways, but not really. (Which is kind of similar to Luke returning... he kind of does, but... not really).

Also: I took those lines about the island to mean that it's something that Rey pictures to escape from the dreary reality of her life on Jakku. Just like she projects "father figure" onto Han and then onto Luke, she later might be projecting "this is my island" onto Ahch-To when she first sees it... but it's not.

My point: we haven't encountered the actual person who comes back in the narrative yet, and we haven't encountered Rey's island yet. Does everyone agree, or was I just reading the island thing wrong?
@nickandnora

Popular opinion here is that "Ben Solo" is the person who comes back. I certainly think that's more likely than Luke at this point, since Rey didn't really bring Luke "back".

As far as whether we've seen "the island" yet, I think it's very possible that we haven't. On the other hand, Rey did say in TLJ that she'd seen the Jedi library "in dreams" before. So, we know that she's dreamt about Ahch-To on some level before.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by nickandnora on Thu 01 Feb 2018, 10:48 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but I happened to stumble upon a few comments about Rey and Kylo's interrogation scene from before TLJ came out (it's not important which ones - some were on reddit, and some were on youtube). They had to do with Kylo saying "You imagine an ocean; I see it. I see the island." So most of the comments are basically like:

"Rey had premonitions of Luke's island!"
"Kylo was seeing Luke's island and didn't even realize it, lol!"
"The island at the end was the island Rey has pictured her whole life, OMG."

But... isn't this in the same vein as Maz's "There's someone who still could (come back)"? The story rather coyly wants you to think "it's Luke!" Similarly the story kind of wants you to think "Ahch-To is THE island she used to imagine!" But... it's probably not. I mean, maybe in some ways, but not really. (Which is kind of similar to Luke returning... he kind of does, but... not really).

Also: I took those lines about the island to mean that it's something that Rey pictures to escape from the dreary reality of her life on Jakku. Just like she projects "father figure" onto Han and then onto Luke, she later might be projecting "this is my island" onto Ahch-To when she first sees it... but it's not.

My point: we haven't encountered the actual person who comes back in the narrative yet, and we haven't encountered Rey's island yet. Does everyone agree, or was I just reading the island thing wrong?
@nickandnora

Popular opinion here is that "Ben Solo" is the person who comes back.  I certainly think that's more likely than Luke at this point, since Rey didn't really bring Luke "back".  

As far as whether we've seen "the island" yet, I think it's very possible that we haven't.  On the other hand, Rey did say in TLJ that she'd seen the Jedi library "in dreams" before. So, we know that she's dreamt about Ahch-To on some level before.
@ISeeAnIsland

I'm actually even skeptical of her seeing the Jedi library before. I'm skeptical of all of it that references Luke, and Ahch-To because something about it isn't narratively satisfying (probably because it's Act II and Luke's story is over, and I doubt she's going to return to Ahch-To in IX, so I don't see the significance). The Jedi texts could in and of themselves be significant, but Yoda all but scoffs at that.

It's like... all of these films play heavily on the theme of duality, right? The book of TFA says that she had seen "this man" before, in a dream, in a nightmare. What if that applies to everything else? What she's seen so far (Luke, Ahch-To, the library) isn't "the dream"... it's "the nightmare" just like we can suppose Kylo is the nightmare and Ben is the dream. Basically: she hasn't seen the "good dream" version of these things yet.

(Hope that made some sense. It was my roundabout way of saying that I think we're going to see a lot of things happen twice.)

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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by snufkin on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:10 pm

One detail that panned out was the whole "you're my guest" line. Which at the time it was like, ok weirdo. You sincerely think that you chivalrously separated Rey from the friends you think are a bad influence on her? And that she'll be so flattered by your attention that she'll turn over the map and then the two of you will go hang out together? Like that ended about as well as it could have. Because if Rey hadn't Jedi Mind Tricked James Bond, the Throne Room scene would've happened as the finale of TFA. Except that Ben would've followed orders and killed Rey instead of Han. She's continually the wild card the Force throws into situations to upend the predictable outcome (which also works on a meta level when it comes to fan expectations).

But the interesting thing about revisiting that scenario was the use of that specific word, Guest. Because its traditional implication goes back to more dangerous times when travelers had to depend on the goodwill and patronage of their hosts. Somebody being your meant that they are your responsibility and under your protection. So when Rey arrive there and was threatened by Snoke, Ben responded accordingly.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by giaciak2 on Mon 05 Feb 2018, 9:03 am

Oh my God, in the Italian version. The voice, "but there is someone who can still come back", followed by the vision of "Kylo with the knights of Ren". It makes me think of "Ben". there are also words. I'll come back, honey, I promise. He does not look like a father voice ... he seems like a lover who says. "If someone has not returned before. I will do it for you". Or at least I interpreted it like that.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by JustMe on Tue 06 Feb 2018, 12:38 pm

In TFA, when Rey first meets BB8, she asks BB8 where he/she comes from, BB8 says something (I don't speak that language) and Rey says "Classified? Me, too. Big Secret." Now when I see this, I think of all the hoopla about who are Rey's parents, what is her backstory. But she says, "Big Secret".

Another thing I notice is how much I like BB8 in TFA. In TLJ, BB8 is used in a gimicky way, just for some laughs. BUt in TFA, BB8 is so expressive, showing so many emotions, with a drooping head, or backing up in alarm, or the variety of sounds.

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