Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by DeeBee on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 8:37 pm

Hi All..
Just thought I'd share a few clips of the new Vader comic..
Vader is fighting Jocasta Nu here..
I thought what she said was interesting..








Seems to me the message is- as long as life exists there will always be light and darkness - because the force is eternal.

It's on youtube if you are interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpPmanD_f5E
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by DeeBee on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 6:05 pm

Hi all,
Anytime balance comes up.. my ears prick up! Very Happy
I thought I'd share this little tidbit about Maz from the Force Awakens Visual dictionary..


the reference to 'cosmic balance' is super interesting - especially as I've been learning about the cosmic force and the living force. To me, this implies that balance may have a number of different dimensions.
Here we have mention of the blend combination of ancient and current, and of technology and nature.. and 'contrast'.

This is consistent with balance being not just an internal condition intrinsic to an individual force user referring to their balance of light and dark.. but also referring to the condition of the universe as a whole, beyond the individual.

I tell ya.. I may be way off track here, but I'm finding thinking more about the force and balance to be really enjoyable and helpful Smile

edited to add: this idea of 'contrast' is really interesting.
I've wondered why some in LF are opposed to the idea of grey jedi.. I've gotten the vibe that grey is not where things are headed but I have been pondering why. The idea of contrast might provide an answer.
When things are grey - there is no contrast it is just grey (or gray depending on your version of english!).
Balance seems to imply the co-existence of contrasts - rather than the merging of two contrasts to become something different and unidimensional. When taking into consideration the yin/yang symbol this makes sense! At least.. it does to me.. lol..


Last edited by DeeBee on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 6:16 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added thought..)
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by DeeBee on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 9:00 pm

hi all,

going to share this comment here as relevant.. and I'm super excited to see anyone on the LF team mention balance!

@MyOnlyHope

Thanks again for sharing this MyOnlyHope.
I'll come back to this twitter exchange and reply as soon as I can.
bye!
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 1:26 am

@DeeBee

Interesting exchange with Matt. Thank you for posting.

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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by Teo oswald on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 3:58 am

As i said in previous post :
If we look at Star wars it
communicates deep thematic message: opposites, darkness and light, good agains evil, Rebell and First Order, revenge and forgiveness must coexist in balance in order to create harmony in the galaxy.
every being has both light and darkness , Kylo infact is unable to find equilibrium he needs someone to help him.
However, Rey and kylo represent the two sides of the force regardless of whether there is light and darkness within them.
and it is precisely for this reason that the two seem prophetic, they are destined to bring balance to the galaxy.

Moreover, Rey is tied to Kylo without knowing it, is linked to the Skywalker / Solo family, before she realized it.
and then we know that Rey will form a new order of Jedi, in her teachings she will surely speak of light and darkness and of coexistence between them.

now how can they find the balance? this is my opinion :
first of all

1) must not be denied that in all of us there is light and darkness, even in the Jedi.

2) we must not suppress a side that we do not like because otherwise we will be in conflict with ourselves like Kylo.

3) Do not see the dark side as a dangerous thing, same as the light.

4) collaboration with each other
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by nickandnora on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 9:35 am

It's tough because I feel like I can visualize a complete resolution to this, but it's extremely hard to articulate. I'll try anyway.

The thing about this story is there are two levels that it's operating under. 1) We have Rey and Kylo Ren as symbolic representations of the Light and the Dark in the Force, and 2) We have Rey and Ben, the human beings. As such, I feel like there are two separate solutions to the idea of "balance." There's how the two of them symbolically come together to literally balance the Force, and there's how the two of them literally come together to symbolically achieve balance as individuals. If that makes sense.

The common motif that the story is employing on both levels is sexual awakening. Rey and Kylo Ren, as representations of the Light and the Dark, have already been in scenarios that read as obvious sexual metaphors. At the same time, their interrogation scene, the fight in the woods, their fight against Snoke, their hand touching... if I may be so crude, these scenes have all been the foreplay, the "everything but (the main act)." ie. They haven't metaphorically gone "all the way" yet in the films. Basically, when something happens in the next movie that very, very strongly resembles the actual penetrative act of having sex, that's the moment where actual "balance" will be achieved, literally, in the galaxy. No, I do not know the precise mechanism for this. Does this act "release" some new type of unified Force power to the world? It's likely, but again, I'm not sure of the "how." Regardless, I'm basically 100% sure that this is what we will see.

You'll notice that I haven't said that the literal act of them having sex (ie. making babies) is what achieves balance. While I do believe in the (extremely, extremely, EXTREMELY, almost certain) possibility that Rey and Ben will have a family together, I do NOT think their children will be "force babies" that are some ideal representation of the Light/Dark of the Force come together in human form. Why? Because for Rey and Ben, family is not a means to an end; family is something that they both strongly desire in and of itself. If they have children who are valued for their intrinsic force-connectedness... well, that's basically what Ben Solo was, and look how that turned out! So no, I don't think them literally having children is what achieves the balance. That's separate from the "bigger" solution at play here.

OK, so what about Rey and Ben achieving balance as individuals and also potentially together as a couple? I think most of us here have nailed down the basis of this one. It started with the acknowledgement of the commonality between them (loneliness) which led to compassion, which has the potential to lead to further understanding, etc. Also, to be clear, I don't think balance as individuals is separate from whatever "Force related" solution saves the world or whatever; the Force itself has been a useful tool in facilitating their understanding of each other. It was the Force that allowed Ben to read Rey's mind and see her loneliness, it was the Force that allowed them to touch hands and have Ben see Rey's sad past and Rey see Ben's hopeful future. So whatever causes them to ultimately come together and be fully empathetic towards each other (which will then likely lead to a stronger personal understanding of their faults as individuals and acknowledgement of love for each other as well) will probably be catalyzed by the Force, but it will allow them to achieve balance on a personal level, not as part of the larger mythology of Force Balance or anything like that.

(I will say that I have some general idea that whatever symbolically penetrative act achieves literal balance in the Force will also cause them to have Ben's thoughts, emotions, and experiences - which notably will include all of his darkness as well - permanently ingrained on Rey's consciousness, and vice versa, which would make it very easy for them to understand each other AND be balanced as individuals indeed. But that's just my theory.)

ETA: Wow, I talked about penetration a lot in this post. Sorry? (Or AM I?) Laughing


Last edited by nickandnora on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by vaderito on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 1:11 pm

I don't know if this belongs in here or in Reylo BatB thread but fantastic post about Rey and Kylo as animus and anima:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7wzs93/an_interesting_and_psychoanalytical_reading_grid/
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by DeeBee on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 4:48 pm

Hi all,
The 'SW Canon Material and possible spoilers for IX [Black Diamond]' thread has been incorporated into the general spoilers thread (which is fair enough.. ) but just thought I'd quote below the comment where I shared snippets from the Poe Dameron Comics about LST talking about the Kazerath Device and the dark and light working together [a potential reference to balance]. I'll put put it in a spoiler format so it doesn't take up space.. but I really wanted to be able to find it again without having to hunt in a year and a half when all the glorious spoilers are coming out for IX  cheers  ]
Here goes..

Poe Dameron Comics - canon content on LST/Kazerath Device/ Dark & Light Working together:

@DeeBee wrote:Hi everyone!

I've come across new information in the Nov 2017 Poe Dameron comic which I haven't seen discussed here so thought I would share it - I think others here are intrigued by this too Smile

A brief history - back in October 2017 - the Poe Dameron 20: Legend Found, part I comic was released.. and in it was something that has already been shared in the lead up to TLJ. [sorry to not credit the original poster I can't find it]  
I'll share the relevant strip here..


A close up:


And.. closer:


All this reference to light and dark in sides of the force creating it - and it having a purpose screamed Rey and Kylo/Ben to me!!!

Anyway, the artifact was an 'unidentified artifact'. but... it now seems.. we have new information that I've not seen shared on this forum.. [probably a little overshadowed because of TLJ release - by design?!]
The Poe Dameron 21: Legend Found, part II comic was released Nov 2017.
In it, this unidentified artifact is named- the Kazerath Device. And... we find out more about it.
[I found the comic here on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk1f6XTTLlM ]
I'll share the relevant images..
The context here is that Lor San Tekka was captured breaking into a vault to access the Karerath Device and is now on trial for theft.. he is defending himself and explaining why he came.  
The vault was in Cato Neimoida, in the 'House of Maccon' vault. This is the same vault where Princess Leia (in this same issue) is seen to be storing her mother's wedding dress for her granddaughter one day. ahem... [I know that has been shared here already - but again I can't find it and acknowledge the person who shared it. sorry. let me know if you want me to share them again.].
1)


2)


3)


I will stop there..

The references to a time in history when light and dark were united, and to the 'future' and the end of the battle between dark and light have me super excited!!!!!
It seems to go to great pains to give random exposition about the device - and how if only light and dark could work together. gah!!! Smile
I must not get too excited it does say 'perhaps the Kazareth is a path to that future (of dark and light working together)'
Nope. I'm still really excited!!!! Putting an end to a millennia of battle is, I think, a goal Rey and Kylo could hold in common Smile

I'll transcribe the text: [bold is bolded in the comic]
1) the device is incredibly unique. It might imply a chapter in the grand history of the force when light and dark were not in opposition, but united.
I petitioned the device's owner repeatedly to be allowed access to the Kazerath, but no - he denied me.
He prefers to keep it buried away in your vault rather than let me learn from it.
If anything, that is the true crime here!
2) As you know, I have dedicated my life to gathering knowledge about the force. Both sides, light and dark.
So many lives have been lost in their battle over the millennia -- but I think someday this fight could end.
3) If they could work together, see that in many ways they are the same... perhaps the Kazerath is a path to that future. I had to see it. And so yes, I did break into your vault.
...

I'll get back here later to reply to new comments. bye!
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by special_cases on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 3:43 pm

What do you guys think about this remark from Matt. Very interesting, because I was sure that there are no "light side" in the Force, it's more The Force (the balance) and corruption of the Force (the dark side). I must say that I don't know anymore what the balance in the Force means.


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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by ZioRen on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 4:45 pm

@special_cases wrote:What do you guys think about this remark from Matt. Very interesting, because I was sure that there are no "light side" in the Force, it's more The Force (the balance) and corruption of the Force (the dark side). I must say that I don't know anymore what the balance in the Force means.

@special_cases

Yeah this is not how it originally was. There was the Force and then there was the dark side, which is corruption. There wasn't "too much light", that wasn't really a thing.
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 4:47 pm

@special_cases wrote:

I must say that I don't know anymore what the balance in the Force means.
@special_cases

Well, since "the force" is a fictional, abstract concept there is no clear meaning or logical definition.
In my opinion it's deliberately ambiguous and that's totally ok for me. Do we really need everything explained? Nope

For me balance means within themselves and not reduced to individuals... at the same time it's a meta for the circle of life.
Decay (darkness) is needed to create new life (light) and one can't exist without the other.

Can one force sensitive person really shift this really big overall concept of that and "unbalance" it?
I don't know and it's up to the story-tellers to make whatever they want with it. But it will be really hard to search some logical explanation or rule to something that's pretty much magic in space.

I always saw the "dark side" of the force as a meta for the bad thoughts and intent in ourselves and the "light side" as the good intent.


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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by Kessel on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 4:49 pm

@special_cases wrote:What do you guys think about this remark from Matt. Very interesting, because I was sure that there are no "light side" in the Force, it's more The Force (the balance) and corruption of the Force (the dark side). I must say that I don't know anymore what the balance in the Force means.

@special_cases

That’s interesting...that response suggests they may be interpreting the Force more in line with the Mortis arc in CW than just the OT and the concept of what the balance of the Force means is something they’ll focus on in Episode IX through Rey and Kylo.

This is probably too much back and forth, but in that case, perhaps the darkness rose in response to the imbalance of the Jedi, but the dark overtook the light. Then when Anakin destroyed the Sith he brought balance again (Kylo is supposedly a focal point of the light and dark), but Snoke tipped it over by seducing Kylo to the dark, thus necessitating the light to try to bring balance again with Rey. Now Rey and Kylo both exist at the same time to bring balance.

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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 5:02 pm

the force wants balance
  in other words :

  equity

  the balance is worth 100
  therefore light is worth 50
and darkness is worth 50

but if, for example, the light is worth 50
and darkness is worth 20 it is clear that the sum of the two will not be 100 but 70  the is no balance

it's a very clear concept Smile thanks for posting it
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by special_cases on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 5:14 pm

@Kessel wrote:
@special_cases wrote:What do you guys think about this remark from Matt. Very interesting, because I was sure that there are no "light side" in the Force, it's more The Force (the balance) and corruption of the Force (the dark side). I must say that I don't know anymore what the balance in the Force means.

@special_cases

That’s interesting...that response suggests they may be interpreting the Force more in line with the Mortis arc in CW than just the OT and the concept of what the balance of the Force means is something they’ll focus on in Episode IX through Rey and Kylo.

This is probably too much back and forth, but in that case, perhaps the darkness rose in response to the imbalance of the Jedi, but the dark overtook the light. Then when Anakin destroyed the Sith he brought balance again (Kylo is supposedly a focal point of the light and dark), but Snoke tipped it over by seducing Kylo to the dark, thus necessitating the light to try to bring balance again with Rey. Now Rey and Kylo both exist at the same time to bring balance.
@Kessel

I thought about Mortis too. If I understand correctly what Matt implies here, then Light and Darkness need to coexist. Interesting how it will play role in Kylo's dark side and curious to see how they explain it in EPIX.

But this is not how it originally was - like @ZioRen already said.

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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 5:22 pm

and now I have a question

but did Luke know about this? what light and darkness must coexist?

if yes

it had to do with "the time of the jedi must end?
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by DeeBee on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 5:29 pm

@special_cases wrote:What do you guys think about this remark from Matt. Very interesting, because I was sure that there are no "light side" in the Force, it's more The Force (the balance) and corruption of the Force (the dark side). I must say that I don't know anymore what the balance in the Force means.

@special_cases

Whooooo thanks sooo much for sharing this here special-cases! You've made my day!

I really need to get back to this thread properly!! but it looks to be line with previous musings of mine on page 2. very exciting!

I look forward to coming back here and seeing what everyone thinks soon!! LOL, I need to remind myself there is no hurry right, we have 20 months to discuss this stuff lol.. bye!
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Re: Light, Darkness, and Balance. But how?

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 6:21 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@special_cases wrote:What do you guys think about this remark from Matt. Very interesting, because I was sure that there are no "light side" in the Force, it's more The Force (the balance) and corruption of the Force (the dark side). I must say that I don't know anymore what the balance in the Force means.

@special_cases

Yeah this is not how it originally was. There was the Force and then there was the dark side, which is corruption. There wasn't "too much light", that wasn't really a thing.
@ZioRen

Yes, this is new. In movies like ROTJ Luke referred to the light as "the good side", but ever since the ST started you don't hear this "good" kind of talk. Instead it's Leia saying "there's light still in him," Rey saying, "there is no light left in Kylo Ren," Luke saying "powerful light, powerful darkness", and this idea of balance between the two is especially expressed in Rey's "life/death... that creates new life" meditation.

I am no expert, but they have definitely moved to what seems to be a more Eastern view of dark and light, where dark traits aren't in and of themselves evil, but in fact are necessary for the world to work. That it's actually the imbalance of those light and dark traits that create problems.
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