The Last Jedi General Discussion

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by nickandnora on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 8:32 pm

I think I missed something. Is it a given that Mark Hamill is even returning for IX?

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by IoJovi on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 8:36 pm

@nickandnora wrote:I think I missed something. Is it a given that Mark Hamill is even returning for IX?
@nickandnora

Given the amount of foreshadowing in the line “See you around, kid,” I can say with certainty Luke is coming back to haunt the sh** out of Ben as a Force Ghost. I can’t wait. Laughing

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by MyOnlyHope on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 8:41 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I think I missed something. Is it a given that Mark Hamill is even returning for IX?
@nickandnora

Given the amount of foreshadowing in the line “See you around, kid,” I can say with certainty Luke is coming back to haunt the sh** out of Ben as a Force Ghost.  I can’t wait.  Laughing

@IoJovi
Definitely! Even though I don't see him having as big a presence as he did in VIII, I think he'll at least have a scene or two like Obi-Wan in ESB and ROTJ.


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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 8:50 pm

@nickandnora wrote:I think I missed something. Is it a given that Mark Hamill is even returning for IX?
@nickandnora

No, it is not a given at all. RJ said he'd love for Luke to come back in some way in IX, but JJ is running the show now.

I actually think that it's possible that Luke will not return for three reasons:
(1) JJ was one of the ones concerned with Luke dominating everyone else. As such, JJ rejected all of MH's ideas and only put Luke in one scene with no lines.

(2) I don't have any real evidence for this, except for the fact that JJ basically cut Luke out of TFA, but I get the feeling that JJ is not a Luke lover in the way RJ is. He seems like he was more of a Han guy because (a) HF has more acting charisma than MH ever has had, and yet JJ was fine to put HF front and center; (b) JJ went to LK for help in writing the script, not some GL devotee, but LK who had serious creative issues with GL and has never seemed overtly into Luke in interviews; (c) JJ loves his new babies, Rey and Kylo, more than Luke and will want to showcase them, (d) Kylo Ren is one of the best creative achievements of JJ's career and he worships Adam.  He may not be interested in bogging Kylo down with more Luke stuff; (e) When JJ created the new Skywalker they bypassed Luke completely and had the kid come from what I assume are their favorites,  Han and Leia; (f) JJ and LK set up a story that made Ben the hub of everything and basically a secret protagonist, even as Rey is the overt protagonist. I just think that he will want to play with Kylo pretty unhindered.

(3) Mark Hamill was a massive pain in the a** with his complaining about TLJ. Mark's complaining literally cost Disney serious dollars. I doubt Bob Iger would cry if IX had no Luke.

And if they do bring in Luke as a force ghost,  I doubt he will get special billing.  He will be treated as a surprise like Frank Oz/Yoda and Sean Connery in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 8:53 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I think I missed something. Is it a given that Mark Hamill is even returning for IX?
@nickandnora

Given the amount of foreshadowing in the line “See you around, kid,” I can say with certainty Luke is coming back to haunt the sh** out of Ben as a Force Ghost.  I can’t wait.  :lol:

@IoJovi

Just as long as he doesn't bust in/interrupt another one of Ben's intimate moments with Rey.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by MyOnlyHope on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:08 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I think I missed something. Is it a given that Mark Hamill is even returning for IX?
@nickandnora

No, it is not a given at all. RJ said he'd love for Luke to come back in some way in IX, but JJ is running the show now.

I actually think that it's possible that Luke will not return for three reasons:
(1) JJ was one of the ones concerned with Luke dominating everyone else. As such, JJ rejected all of MH's ideas and only put Luke in one scene with no lines.

(2) I don't have any real evidence for this, except for the fact that JJ basically cut Luke out of TFA, but I get the feeling that JJ is not a Luke lover in the way RJ is. He seems like he was more of a Han guy because (a) HF has more acting charisma than MH ever has had, and yet JJ was fine to put HF front and center; (b) JJ went to LK for help in writing the script, not some GL devotee, but LK who had serious creative issues with GL and has never seemed overtly into Luke in interviews; (c) JJ loves his new babies, Rey and Kylo, more than Luke and will want to showcase them, (d) Kylo Ren is one of the best creative achievements of JJ's career and he worships Adam.  He may not be interested in bogging Kylo down with more Luke stuff; (e) When JJ created the new Skywalker they bypassed Luke completely and had the kid come from what I assume are their favorites,  Han and Leia; (f) JJ and LK set up a story that made Ben the hub of everything and basically a secret protagonist, even as Rey is the overt protagonist. I just think that he will want to play with Kylo pretty unhindered.

(3) Mark Hamill was a massive pain in the a** with his complaining about TLJ. Mark's complaining literally cost Disney serious dollars. I doubt Bob Iger would cry if IX had no Luke.

And if they do bring in Luke as a force ghost,  I doubt he will get special billing.  He will be treated as a surprise like Frank Oz/Yoda and Sean Connery in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.
@SoloSideCousin
Yeah, I see it more like the bolded. I would be surprised if force ghost Luke doesn't show up in the post-victory celebration. There's a little bit of unfinished business between him and Ben that could literally be solved with just them smiling at each other. Might as well throw Anakin and Obi-Wan in while they're at it too. Nothing serious. They don't even need to say anything. J.J. can carry on his tradition of directing Luke for one scene with no dialogue. Razz


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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:09 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I think I missed something. Is it a given that Mark Hamill is even returning for IX?
@nickandnora

Given the amount of foreshadowing in the line “See you around, kid,” I can say with certainty Luke is coming back to haunt the sh** out of Ben as a Force Ghost.  I can’t wait.  Laughing

@IoJovi

I know this opinion is unpopular, but I honestly am not that into Luke returning to be a Force Ghost to Ben. Luke f***ed with Ben enough in life. Give Ben some peace for himself in death. If anyone comes to Ben, let it be his father.  Insanely, that relationship actually seems less effed up than the one with Luke, and Ben can get real reconciliation with Han.

If it has to be a Force Ghost, get Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan in there. They messed up Anakin.  Let them help Ben. I actually don't want an Anakin force ghost because I have come to believe that because of his quick redemption that Anakin may not be all that wise yet on the other side. Also, acting wise the Adam/Ewan or Adam/Liam scenes would probably work better.

If they want Luke in there, let him be Rey's counselor.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Mana on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:17 pm

I think Luke will definitely show up..and this time he won't upstage anyone as a Force ghost. I have a feeling he might appear to Rey, just like Obi Wan did with him in ROTJ. He said everything he had to say to Ben at the end of TLJ. Ben is too traumatized to reason with anymore, the rest is up to Ben himself...
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by MyOnlyHope on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:31 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I think I missed something. Is it a given that Mark Hamill is even returning for IX?
@nickandnora

Given the amount of foreshadowing in the line “See you around, kid,” I can say with certainty Luke is coming back to haunt the sh** out of Ben as a Force Ghost.  I can’t wait.  Laughing

@IoJovi

I know this opinion is unpopular, but I honestly am not that into Luke returning to be a Force Ghost to Ben. Luke f***ed with Ben enough in life. Give Ben some peace for himself in death. If anyone comes to Ben, let it be his father.  Insanely, that relationship actually seems less effed up than the one with Luke, and Ben can get real reconciliation with Han.

If it has to be a Force Ghost, get Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan in there. They messed up Anakin.  Let them help Ben. I actually don't want an Anakin force ghost because I have come to believe that because of his quick redemption that Anakin may not be all that wise yet on the other side. Also, acting wise the Adam/Ewan or Adam/Liam scenes would probably work better.

If they want Luke in there, let him be Rey's counselor.
@SoloSideCousin
I just don't see the point of Luke returning to Ben physically when he essentially admits that his relationship with his nephew is too tainted to save him the way he saved Vader. He can't help Ben for that reason, and he's accepted it. At the same time, I think he chooses to believe in Rey and remember that anyone can still be saved (no one's ever really gone). He knows Ben's familial ties are too contaminated to have any effect besides burying him further. Only Rey and Ben himself can help him come back. Luke knows that I think, so why would he bother trying to counsel his nephew? They can just smile at each other and reconcile after Ben comes back.

The other thing is that TLJ makes a big deal of getting rid of Rey's and Kylo's counselors. They're moving forward without Snoke and Luke respectively. This is truly their story now IMO. No baggage. Dragging the counselors back in would just be taking a step back.

Just realized we're in the awards thread. Soo off topic. Sorry. Razz
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by rawpowah on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:35 pm

@SoloSideCousin The surprise appearance a la Yoda seems like a good idea. If Luke does show himself to Ben, I hope he doesn't mock, lecture, and frighten him, but instead actually tries to have a heartfelt conversation with his nephew.

I can imagine Luke showing himself to Rey to talk about Ben or to help her with Force stuff, but I'd much rather those conversations take place between Rey and Ben. No mentor baggage.

Is it bad for me to hope for a Han cameo in the form of a holo message for Ben? I think that would be amazing, but Ford is done with SW Laughing


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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:36 pm

I kind of think that we have to get at least one Force Ghost Luke scene with Ben, given the "See ya around, kid."

But I think it could be a totally different scenario than Luke "haunting" Ben in a tormenting way.

Assuming that Ben figured out why Luke did what he did with the projection on Crait (to stall so that the Resistance could escape), if Ben is feeling lost and broken and is missing Rey in IX, maybe Luke can go to Ben as a true mentor? Especially because it doesn't seem like Luke was all that great of a mentor to Ben when he was alive? Hell, maybe Luke can even give Ben advice on Rey, as a bit of a reversal of the cockblocking Luke did in TLJ.
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general disc merge

Post by IoJovi on Tue 23 Jan 2018, 9:38 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@nickandnora wrote:I think I missed something. Is it a given that Mark Hamill is even returning for IX?
@nickandnora

Given the amount of foreshadowing in the line “See you around, kid,” I can say with certainty Luke is coming back to haunt the sh** out of Ben as a Force Ghost.  I can’t wait.  Laughing

@IoJovi

I know this opinion is unpopular, but I honestly am not that into Luke returning to be a Force Ghost to Ben. Luke f***ed with Ben enough in life. Give Ben some peace for himself in death. If anyone comes to Ben, let it be his father.  Insanely, that relationship actually seems less effed up than the one with Luke, and Ben can get real reconciliation with Han.

If it has to be a Force Ghost, get Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan in there. They messed up Anakin.  Let them help Ben. I actually don't want an Anakin force ghost because I have come to believe that because of his quick redemption that Anakin may not be all that wise yet on the other side. Also, acting wise the Adam/Ewan or Adam/Liam scenes would probably work better.

If they want Luke in there, let him be Rey's counselor.
@SoloSideCousin

True, but I am thinking about the dramatic potential, Mark Hamill being a PITA aside.  He’s the only one who knows Rey and Ben’s little secret at this point, and it’d be delicious to see him bring it up with him.  I’m trying to imagine the outcome of such a scene. I look forward to this second only to the actual Reylo scenes in IX.

To me, I think it’s still a given he’ll be back, given how pointed the See You Around Kid line was.   He’ll be back, although this time wiser, with insight he lacked before.  No, he still can’t save Ben, but he can spur him on towards the person who can.

EDIT: @ISeeAnIsland I totally agree Luke won’t be haunting Ben in an irksome way (okay, maybe at first), but more of the mentor he should have been to begin with.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by nickandnora on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 12:04 am

My husband had a neat idea when we were talking about the possibility of force-ghost returns: The audience expects Luke (on some level). Both the audience and also Kylo himself probably expect Vader/Anakin. Some might theorize about Han, even though he wasn't a Jedi. If we're talking normal people force-ghosts (probably not a thing, but humour me), one that might be effective is... Ben's grandmother, Padme. After all, Natalie Portman is alive, young, a good actress (PT notwithstanding), and if reverse Anidala is a thing (it is) then that might actually be the visit to actually symbolize that, on some level. I like the idea. Kylo speaks to Vader, his grandfather, but he gets his grandmother instead. I'm sure *she'd* have some stuff to say.

Other than that, my third viewing of TLJ this evening has cemented that I kind of DON'T want Luke to return at all (too much closure with his final scene in TLJ), but to each their own.

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Night Huntress on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 12:28 am

@SoloSideCousin

I totally agree with you. I'm not a fan of Luke showing up to Kylo/Ben as force-ghost. If he shows up than just briefly and to Rey or at both at them at he end when all is already resolved.

I'm not a fan of the whole FG thing in Star Wars in general... and I really dislike the idea of any FG showing up to Ben for "advise" or whatever. They haven't bother to give him advise when most needed- so they could stay freaking away now. Rolling Eyes

And Padme as FG? Sorry but she wasn't able to save her own husband whose kids she was pregnant with and died of a broken heart after that - leaving her babies alone...I'm not a fan of Padme- sorry LOL

The only FG I would be OK with are the ones showing up at the end for celebration or for nostalgia- but not for anything meaningful to the story.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Dar-ren19 on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:13 am

@Reynak wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:It being a female power fantasy in many ways is the real reason for the backlash from many male fans and likely the vehement denial of Reylo in some sectors too. This is a romance very much on Rey's terms, and Kylo is often presented as weaker than Rey, "beneath" (though I don't like using that word) her, and even somewhat submissive at times (as in every time he tries to assert dominance over Rey, it flips on him and he winds up on his knees before her by the end).

That's not going to sit well with a lot of people, and it's funny that I see it constantly compared to popular romance stories where the female character isn't as strong or in control, like Twilight and 50 Shades. They're trying to throw shade at the romance by comparing it to those "silly fantasies" that "silly women" enjoy even when it doesn't fit at all (and with the extra level of implying that those stories are also clearly poisoning women and making them weak-minded). It's condescending and ridiculous on multiple levels. Laughing
@ZioRen

Most males watch tons of action movies of questionsble quality, read on average less than women and less variety. It’s not that they don’t consume trash but they keep on deriding women for liking Twilight or 50 Shades. I don’t have an opinion about either because I haven’t read or seen them but this doesn’t mean I don’t love dark romaces, those two aren’t my cup of tea, that’s all. The problem is not reading/watching trash because dudes do just that as often as women or probably more often, the problem is that they feel entitled to set the standards of what is acceptable, for us, of course, not for them.

There have been many s*** bestsellers and blockbusters that made lots of money but they go on about how awful these two are like for ever just to make women seem stupid fangirls with poor taste. If many women want to see/read them it’s OK, everybody should be respected and able to enjoy what they want, even if it is trashy, to start with.

In fact they don’t have a problem with the quality of what we like, they have a problem with women empowerment in general. Girlish things, feminine things, are looked down on and women can be heroines only if they behave in a way these people ( and there are women among them) deem acceptable. As heroines they have to behave like a man would do and be bad*** as hell, not “girly” , overemotiomal or even realistic, if you ask me. Female heoroes can’t have any flaws either because they are supposed to set models for little girls whereas male heroes are even more successful if they are somewhat dark.

There are action movies where a guy kills people or even makes a living of that and nobody complains they get the girl and a happy ending. But TPTB are so intent on making heroines likable that they are devoid of flaws. This makes them flat as characters, without depth or nuance because the writers are afraid the character will be hated if made more human. And they may be right, they probably are, because fandoms are extremely hard on female characters and much more forgiving for male characters.

The hate on Kylo Ren is another example of this, he is hated because he has traits coded as feminine and this makes him be perceived as weak and whiny when he never complains in the movie, is wounded and goes on fighting and shows a lot of strength and power. If he was seen as bad*** his evil actions wouldn’t be a problem for fans. Think of Darth Vader, for instance, and there are many others.

They dislike him because the character doesn’t conform to the standards of masculinity males are used to expecting in fiction. Male characters are supposed to look a certain way, be self-possesed, show no weaknesses, no emotions and not to depend on a woman to be happy. Ben Solo isn’t like this, he feels real, he hesitates, has weaknesses, has been manipulated and controlled by Snoke and treats Rey as an equal. To make matters worse he is head over hills in love with her and she is the one in control in their dynamic.

Averge male fans tend to prefer FinnRey because they are adamant on ignoring the female gaze. They sympathise with Finn so Finn should get the girl. This is not about what Rey wants because they are unable to identify with Rey in this department as she is female. If they were able to see things through Rey’s eyes they’d realise she is into Kylo/Ben. He is the one who looks the part to be her LI in TFA and even more in TLJ, because Adam won’t be every woman’s type but he is made to look attractive in the ST. The make-up, the long hair, the clothes, the camera shots, everything sees to that. They also cast a guy whose looks may be unconventional but has appeared as a character women lust after on screen very often. Some may be surprised but many women find him sexy and he is more than able to act sexy and appear sexy on screen, which is what matters here.

He’s every bit the Byronic hero in TLJ and that’s hard to resist if you add acting chops, a tall well-built frame, beautiful voice, shiny long hair and expressive eyes. You may like his feautes or not but the rest is hard to disagree on, as much as they have tried with all those memes about shirtless Kylo.

Another thing that surprised me is all the fuss about a shirtless scene when female LI’s appear sexualized and scantily clad in most movies. People are used to the male gaze even for protagonists (like Lara Croft, for instance) but not to the female gaze. They looke for reasons why he appeared shirtlees for “no apparent reason” but if the genders were reversed we’d have never seen those comments. In fact we never see them.

Many fans get mad at Rey for being attracted to the guy they don’t approve of, not because they fear he will abuse her, but because they keep ignoring the female gaze = who Rey wants and desires. She wounded him, insulted him and broke his heart. If the genres were reversed nobody would fear the hero would be abused and many wound dislike it if he cut open the female villain’s face when she was unarmed. They are still looking for a male character cool enough to identify with, for many it’s Poe now so they ship her with him. This is hypocritical as hell because these same people are sometimes the ones who said she needs no man. Either she becomes the winning prize for their favorite or lives the life of a celibate jedi monk, not nun, because that would be too feminine.

All this is crazy and far from female friendly.
@Reynak

I'm quoting this because of the significance of your thoughts regarding the virulence with which some (not all) male fans seem to have attacked TLJ. I noticed this also happened for Star Trek: Discovery and a lot of it was because the lead is female (and at the time of the pilot episodes, it had TWO female leads). I will also admit openly that I am a Twilight fan despite the fact that I don't like most of the films and think that the writing could have been better. I'm a fan because I thought the premise was great (although Angel from Buffy went there first thanks to Joss Whedon).

Indeed very hypocritical, and I also noticed that Wonder Woman had similar backlash, though much more muted because the historical entitlement wasn't there on the male fans' part for the WW narrative.

The only way out of this is a steady growth in the number of women writers and directors.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:42 am

@Night Huntress wrote:@SoloSideCousin

I totally agree with you. I'm not a fan of Luke showing up to Kylo/Ben as force-ghost. If he shows up than just briefly and to Rey or at both at them at he end when all is already resolved.

I'm not a fan of the whole FG thing in Star Wars in general... and I really dislike the idea of any FG showing up to Ben for "advise" or whatever. They haven't bother to give him advise when most needed- so they could stay freaking away now. Rolling Eyes

And Padme as FG? Sorry but she wasn't able to save her own husband whose kids she was pregnant with and died of a broken heart after that - leaving her babies alone...I'm not a fan of Padme- sorry LOL

The only FG I would be OK with are the ones showing up at the end for celebration or for nostalgia- but not for anything meaningful to the story.
@Night Huntress

I think that I pretty much agree with everything, except wanting a Han ghost, because now that now that Carrie is gone, I see that option as being the only way Ben gets resolution with his family.

IMO, Luke is a completely impossible choice for this role. You don't go for consolation and reconciliation and peace from the uncle who almost intentionally killed you as a sleeping teenager.  You need someone that you can remotely trust.

And strangely enough, after what happened, Ben probably has real trust and faith in Han. Not because Han was some great father and not because Han didn't screw up a bunch with Ben, but because when the moment of truth came, Han walked out on that bridge when he knew damn well that his son was as dangerous as hell. Luke "fake confronted" him, and Leia never went to confront him. Han was the only one who was willing to put it all on the line for Ben in Ben's mind. And it would also be very cathartic and good for Ben to make amends to his father. And frankly Adam and Harrison would kill it.

I agree with you about the other force ghosts too. I didn't think about it that way, but where were all these people when Ben had a disgusting predator in his head? Yoda has the power to straighten Luke out and burn a tree in the physical world, but he couldn't try to shield Ben? Especially when he seems pretty aware that Luke effed up.

As for Anakin, they have really re-villainized him so much in recent canon, I barely can take his full and absolute redemption seriously anymore. But just assume I'm wrong ... again, where was he, Mr. Uber-powerful Chosen One when a predator was in his grandson's head? It's not like Anakin didn't have some direct experience on that.

I agree with you about Padme too. George Lucas wrecked that character. Lost the will to live when you have two beautiful babies. Now maybe they will retcon that in the new book and have Palpatine sucking her life force, and maybe they'll have her being mentally manipulated by Palpatine for years (hence explaining why she jumped into a marriage with and said "I love you" to him after he killed a village. I mean I'm not saying that she should have spit in his face, but at least some intensive PTSD therapy and recognizable change and healing before you walk down that aisle), but until that happens, she's not a go-to person in my mind.

I mean if they want a sympathetic family member and Harrison Ford won't do it, call up Pernilla August, because the only mistake poor Shmi made was believing the Jedi. Aside from that, she's about as untainted as a Skywalker gets.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by DeeBee on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:26 am

Loving this discussion about FGs all! Smile does it deserve it's own thread?

I agree the last thing we want is Luke hounding or haunting Kylo/Ben in IX.
He just got Snoke out of his head - can the guy have a break?! tee hee.. so if they go with FG Luke visiting Kylo it would need to be kept to a minimum. I read a fan fic recently that had FG Luke show up just once or twice to confront Kylo/Ben, who was talking to Vader's helmet - and Luke told the story of what happened in Vader's final moments.. it prompts Kylo/Ben to throw away the helmet and let go of his pursuit of Vader's purpose. Luke also shared with Kylo/Ben Rey's reaction to finding out how Luke tried to kill him and how she had fought for him and kicked Luke's butt- i.e. you're an idiot and she's on your side! I was happy with that scenario!

FGs of non-jedi's would be extremely unlikely.. IMHO..

I love Padme - but hated her ending.. she did what she could - and in her life she did many amazing things for the galaxy. I loved her value system and how she acted to make the galaxy a better place for everyone. She deserves to be honoured. I hope she will be...
However, FG Padme would be a stretch as she was not a jedi.. I think the only way that could work is if FG Anakin was reunited with her in the afterlife somehow and he facilitated her becoming a FG. Sounds a bit complicated? I guess we can't rule anything out.. but I think it is unlikely.

Anakin FG would be fine with me. Someone who he can trust and listen to needs to get real with Kylo/Ben.. and he seems to trust 'Vader'.

I've had a niggling thought since the idea of balance came up in the ST... I've said this before.. but I'm wondering, if Balance is the ultimate goal/purpose and this is achieved, would FGs still exist? It seems to me that it could be a usurping of the natural order - the cycle of life/death.. that we learned in TLJ is part of balance in the living force. Soooo I'm not sure FGs can exist if there is balance. Maybe..

FG Leia seems unlikely - unless they have existing footage that can be re-purposed for this..
While it is truly sad CF isn't going to be able to finish this story as originally intended, it is possible for someone to make peace with someone even if they have died. Ben can still make peace with her though she has passed on.
If we could find out in some way how much she had truly loved him and hoped for his return all those years some way.. it could help Ben to make peace with their past..
I read a fan fic the other day (oh dear, this is going to be a regular way to start sentences if I keep this up! Wink ) but the Fan fic had Rey and Kylo/Ben reading Leia's diary from when she was pregnant with Ben. With the diary, the story was able to convey her struggle, her love for her son, her sense of helplessness at being lost in knowing how to help her son.. I think it worked very well.
I'm not saying this is how it will play out, but it showed me that with good writers, who no doubt are way more clever than I am, there are ways to convey the story - even if the actor can't be there anymore. So we can get the story - it will just need to be told differently..
I think LF know it is sooooo important to get the resolution of Kylo/Ben's relationship with his mother right - and their best hearts and minds will be working to get it right.. it's crucial really.. IMHO!
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by thescavenger on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:43 am

@DeeBee wrote:I love Padme - but hated her ending.. she did what she could  - and in her life she did many amazing things for the galaxy. I loved her value system and how she acted to make the galaxy a better place for everyone. She deserves to be honoured. I hope she will be...
However, FG Padme would be a stretch as she was not a jedi.. I think the only way that could work is if FG Anakin was reunited with her in the afterlife somehow and he facilitated her becoming a FG. Sounds a bit complicated? I guess we can't rule anything out.. but I think it is unlikely.
@DeeBee and @SoloSideCousin

With all the talks regarding Padmé, I coincidentally read this article this morning

https://www.avclub.com/star-wars-episode-ix-can-fill-leia-s-absence-by-embrac-1822178742

I still think Padmé as a conceptual character is phenomenal, an elected child queen to lead a nation with pure idealistic beliefs. That has never happened throughout history, and it could've been explored in a very comprehensive way, especially in terms of how the idolisation affecter her adulthood. She should've had troubles growing up and being so idolised that she eventually fell for Anakin. But as far as the prequels and the portrayal of the character go, it was quite disappointing to say the least. I partially blame that on George Lucas as well as the norms of the time the movie came out.

I grew up with the prequels as my childhood Star Wars films as well, so I think I'm inclined to be more forgiving. But wow did her love story undermine her character. The dynamics were all wrong and she became a subservient character to her husband, so out of character and against everything she was meant to stand for. It's such a shame because as a character, she had all that potential, the precursor for why Leia became so headstrong and a great leader. I still think she's an underrated character, despite every sitthy decision they've made in her portrayal.

As for the FG Padmé, that's a no, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was mentioned in IX. Maybe that's how reverse Anidala is pronounced for Reylo.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Night Huntress on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 11:17 am

I just read something on Tumblr I was wondering myself for a while.

What do you think happened after Luke interrupted the handsex hand touch force-skype session on Kylo's side ?
He must have freaked out not knowing what Luke will do...if he would hurt Rey or keep her somehow from contacting him again?

I don't know how much the novel will reveal but I'm also dying to know what he was thinking the moment he realizes Rey shipped herself to him on the Supremacy


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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by ZioRen on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 12:46 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:I just read something on Tumblr I was wondering myself for a while.

What do you think happened after Luke interrupted the handsex hand touch force-skype session on Kylo's side ?
He must have freaked out not knowing what Luke will do...if he would hurt Rey or keep her somehow from contacting him again?

I don't know how much the novel will reveal but I'm also dying to know what he was thinking the moment he realizes Rey shipped herself to him on the Supremacy
@Night Huntress

Same! I'm so curious as to his thought process after that scene, though we may not end up seeing it from his perspective. I'm sure there was a lot of internal ranting over Luke. I also wonder what was going through Kylo's head when he realized that Rey was shipping herself right to him. He came to meet her and wasn't surprised to see her, so clearly he knew before she touched down what she was doing.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 1:58 pm

@Mana wrote:I think Luke will definitely show up..and this time he won't upstage anyone as a Force ghost. I have a feeling he might appear to Rey, just like Obi Wan did with him in ROTJ. He said everything he had to say to Ben at the end of TLJ. Ben is too traumatized to reason with anymore, the rest is up to Ben himself...
@Mana

I hope you're right. I'd like to see some positive interactions between he and Rey à la Obi Wan and Luke.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Birdwoman on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:09 pm

Random comment: I have been listening to several interviews Rian is giving about TLJ. Does he ever talk in great detail about their relationship? I know in the Empire podcast he touches on it. It is fascinating what some of these largely male dominated podcasts focus on or is the Reylo dynamic still largely off limits in the discussions of the movie?

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Riri on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:20 pm

https://youtu.be/52L2HML5O1k

Star Wars channel just uploaded this, theres an exclusive scene with. rey/Luke and the novel will include Han Solo's funeral.

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Kylo Rey on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:30 pm



Rian helped write the TLJ novelisation, which includes Han Solo's funeral and the Tico sisters together. They also showed a snippet of the Rey/Luke deleted scene. Confirmation that Rian's commentary will be on the Blu-Ray in March! No waiting till November and a 3D rerelease (like JJ's TFA commentary).
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Wed 24 Jan 2018, 2:34 pm

Huh, so if she out and out says her son killed Han in the novel, that's interesting because the one scene where he comes down to face Luke, Poe recognizes him without the mask and calls him by his FO title. So guess it's no big ugly family secret what Leia's son has been up to? And the Resistance members are all cool with that?
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