The Last Jedi General Discussion

Page 19 of 26 Previous  1 ... 11 ... 18, 19, 20 ... 22 ... 26  Next

Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by californiagirl on Sat 10 Feb 2018, 12:54 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SheLitAFire wrote:
@Darth Dementor wrote:
@Kessel wrote:At first, I also was a little irritated by the “you’re nothing, but not to me” line when I heard about it (before seeing the movie). But after seeing the scene play out, I thought it worked in the context and with Adam’s delivery. It fits with Kylo’s state of mind (he’s not in a great place and he’s thinking Rey will react like he would in such a situation), but it’s clear he’s sincerely telling Rey she means something to him (aka she’s important to him).

I agree with @ZioRen, Kylo wasn’t trying to hurt Rey with those words; he was trying to reach her and make her see that he saw her as somebody, even if she wasn’t (in the context of the galaxy).  I also wish that there were more stakes in that scene for Rey to join Kylo, but the whole situation made it easy for Rey to say no, at that moment because her Resistance friends were in imminent danger and Kylo was ignoring her requests to stop the attack on them. So even if she wanted to talk to Kylo or find a way to reason with him, there was no time.

I wonder if the ”you’re nothing, but not to me” line may have worked better if Kylo had used “nobody” instead of “nothing.” After all, Rey already said her parents were “nobodies.” I think if Kylo had said, “you’re nobody, but not to me” or “you’re nobody in this galaxy, but not to me” it would have conveyed his feelings more accurately than “you’re nothing.” Maybe Rian continued with  “nothing” instead of switching to “nobody” since he’d already used, “you come from nothing”? Who knows...
@Kessel

I can't help but think the "you have no place in this story" was a shot at the Rey Walker crowd. Most of the people who dislike TLJ always use Rey is not Luke's daughter as their primary reason for hating it and even say TFA is worthless now because of her NON Skywalker past. The fact that some demand the next installment to retcon it's predecessor shows Rian may have anticipated the anti's bitterness and refusal to accept Rey as she is?
@Darth Dementor

It just makes me think that maybe they changed the lines in this scene after they had already started filming? Because the script was finished before TFA came out so the huge Reywalker group hadn't even emerged yet. scratch
@SheLitAFire

It's either that, or they already predicted/expected the Rey's Parentage Mystery Box/Reylated to be huge things going into TLJ.

Someone at LF wanted the Reywalker red herrings...considering that those teases continued until the TLJ marketing really ramped up. We theorized here a while back that LF wanted to keep the Reywalker/Reylated speculation going as an easy way for them to hide Reylo in plain sight.
@ISeeAnIsland

I remember AD saying that both JJ and Rian, being huge SW fans, know the expectations and the mentality of SW fandom. This is how RJ was able to subvert tropes before TFA had come out, he knew what people expected to happen. Never mind the fact that TFA didn't set up Rey's parents being important, or that Snoke was going to have this huge role and have an elaborate backstory revealed in the next installment. The audience did this to themselves, because apparently that's how stories and films work, and then they blame the movie, because clearly RJ just wanted to be different for its own sake and didn't care about what came before or after it. TLJ has problems, but I chalk most of the common complaints down to a combination of personal taste and not understanding what are fairly simple storytelling measures. This from people who claim to understand SW better than anyone else. Neutral
avatar
californiagirl
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 136
Likes : 752
Date d'inscription : 2017-11-12
Age : 24

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by ZioRen on Sat 10 Feb 2018, 1:06 pm

Rian has said in recent interviews that he predicted the Rey Parentage obsession. That's why he decided it was a question he wanted to specifically address and focus on in regards to her arc. No doubt he was very much aware, as were all of them, that everybody and their grandma would just assume she was Luke's kid. It almost felt like a blatant red herring at times in TFA and its marketing.

I also think you can't extricate that Throne Room proposal from its meta meaning. It was quite painfully meta and I feel as though half of the lines chosen were specifically there to talk to the audience. Maybe that's why it feels so off to some viewers, even Reylos. Laughing
avatar
ZioRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2239
Likes : 14768
Date d'inscription : 2016-05-27

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sat 10 Feb 2018, 1:55 pm

@ZioRen wrote:Rian has said in recent interviews that he predicted the Rey Parentage obsession. That's why he decided it was a question he wanted to specifically address and focus on in regards to her arc. No doubt he was very much aware, as were all of them, that everybody and their grandma would just assume she was Luke's kid. It almost felt like a blatant red herring at times in TFA and its marketing.

I also think you can't extricate that Throne Room proposal from its meta meaning. It was quite painfully meta and I feel as though half of the lines chosen were specifically there to talk to the audience. Maybe that's why it feels so off to some viewers, even Reylos. Laughing
@ZioRen

I just felt like they were beating us over the head with the parents question and answer, baiting the audience a few times before the final reveal where Kylo really hammers the truth home after she admits it to herself... and yet, a few are still holding on, wtf. Let go! Laughing
avatar
Cowgirlsamurai
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1615
Likes : 8090
Date d'inscription : 2017-03-30
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Saracene on Sat 10 Feb 2018, 2:57 pm

@ZioRen wrote:Rian has said in recent interviews that he predicted the Rey Parentage obsession. That's why he decided it was a question he wanted to specifically address and focus on in regards to her arc. No doubt he was very much aware, as were all of them, that everybody and their grandma would just assume she was Luke's kid. It almost felt like a blatant red herring at times in TFA and its marketing.

I also think you can't extricate that Throne Room proposal from its meta meaning. It was quite painfully meta and I feel as though half of the lines chosen were specifically there to talk to the audience. Maybe that's why it feels so off to some viewers, even Reylos. Laughing
@ZioRen

In hindsight, I kinda wish that Rey's parentage was cleanly resolved back in TFA instead of it getting dragged into TLJ and making Rey's arc feel kinda muddled. I mean, right up until her third conversation with Kylo, the story had *nothing* to do with Rey's parents or her feelings about them. It was supposedly about her coming to the island because she wants someone to help her deal with her newly discovered powers, and learning about the force and the Jedi from Luke and what her place in all of this is now that she knows she has the force. Then midway through it's suddenly about Rey's parents and her thinking she'd find some answers about them? Like, in ESB Luke becoming a Jedi and Luke's family drama are closely interlinked, but in TLJ it just sort of jumps from one thing to another.

In general, I think it's an issue that the things Rey does genuinely care about - family, personal connections, belonging - have little to do with the force or the Jedi. Other than, I can use my powers to help the people I care about. If she's meant to be the last Jedi, there's very little sense that it's coming from Rey herself, it's more about her being picked for the role by the force or destiny or whatever.
avatar
Saracene
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1787
Likes : 11650
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27
Age : 37
Localisation : Melbourne

http://yggdrasille.com

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by vaderito on Sat 10 Feb 2018, 5:16 pm

hey, guys, look what I found thanks to a suggestion from another forum. From 2:06 min, there's no way that this hand touch didn't inspire Reylo one:



The aesthetic is very similar (those warm fire/sunlight colors + fingertips barely touching + expressions on their faces + interruption).
avatar
vaderito
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 9769
Likes : 47183
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Kylo Rey on Sat 10 Feb 2018, 6:43 pm

So I just realised that if it all goes to plan and JJ follows through with a happy Reylo ending in IX, Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver will kiss several times during filming this year. Whether it be for rehearsals (actually are kisses even rehearsed? Idk), different takes, or because we might get more than one kiss. cheers

Also, I'm reminded of that time Carrie interviewed Daisy:



Turns out Rey's space kiss will most likely be with Carrie's space son!
avatar
Kylo Rey
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 512
Likes : 4507
Date d'inscription : 2016-12-24
Age : 21
Localisation : England

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 3:22 am




gwendy predicted the scene of the hut Smile sooo
avatar
Teo oswald
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 269
Likes : 1100
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 26
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by rey09 on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 7:27 am

@Teo oswald wrote:

gwendy predicted the scene of the hut Smile sooo
@Teo oswald

Omg that's hilarious!! And it brings me to a question I have. So during the hand scene Luke sees Kylo no? So what does that mean? Surely he didn't project himself like Luke did, was he physically there? And then for the last scene when Kylo enters the room he looks up and sees the falcon entrance, does that mean he can now see more of her surroundings than just her?

avatar
rey09
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1086
Likes : 5321
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-29

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by SheLitAFire on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 8:58 am

@rey09 wrote:
@Teo oswald wrote:

gwendy predicted the scene of the hut Smile sooo
@Teo oswald

Omg that's hilarious!! And it brings me to a question I have. So during the hand scene Luke sees Kylo no? So what does that mean? Surely he didn't project himself like Luke did, was he physically there? And then for the last scene when Kylo enters the room he looks up and sees the falcon entrance, does that mean he can now see more of her surroundings than just her?

@rey09

I took it to mean that over time their force bond was getting stronger. They could break through it to touch each other's fingers + Luke being able to briefly see him with her.

_________________

You Pierce My Soul. I am Half Agony, Half Hope.-Jane Austen

Avatar: Garden of Eden by ChieuMua
avatar
SheLitAFire
Moderator

Messages : 1675
Likes : 6356
Date d'inscription : 2016-09-15
Age : 31
Localisation : Colorado

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 9:12 am

@rey09


if you look at the scene of the hut you can see only Ben's hand illuminated, his face is still in the ship. Only after Rey cries and Ben in compassion
  we hear a sound, in that moment Ben is in the hut. however it is only a projection because then we see him disappear but I think that Ben could see her surrounding because he entered her reality and touched her. In the Falcon scene it is possible that he sees her surroundings as a consequence of the hut scene, but these are just hypotheses. I would also have an idea why Kylo could not see her surroundings
avatar
Teo oswald
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 269
Likes : 1100
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 26
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Kylo Rey on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 9:50 am

Yeah I took it to mean that their connection was growing stronger too. They literally reach across the galaxy to touch hands so that should give you an idea of how strong it became. He's also being pulled into her surroundings. On another note, I know we've joked around about how they should have kissed in the elevator or what have you, but it's probably a good thing they didn't. We now know from Rian's Q&A that Kylo basically planned to kill Snoke before going into the throne room because of Rey, but he didn't know how (which is the most Solo thing ever btw). So he was trying to shroud his true intentions from Snoke in the elevator which is why he appears distant/distracted in his own thoughts. Kissing Rey would have revealed to Snoke his feelings for the enemy and they would have both been in big trouble (I mean I think Snoke had some idea and underestimated the strength of his feelings but this would have been too obvious). But also, not to mention Kylo would have been an emotional mess if that happened and he needed strength and resolve in that moment to save Rey and fool his master.
avatar
Kylo Rey
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 512
Likes : 4507
Date d'inscription : 2016-12-24
Age : 21
Localisation : England

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 10:36 am

@Kylo Rey

Kylo was in standby mode:) during the scene of the throne.
in the elevator he was looking straight ahead, but he seemed a little agitated, thoughtful, then she calls him and he returns to reality. When she approaches him, if you notice he shoots his head. He is not loose, he is rigid.
Rey is calm when she should be afraid. The roles have been reversed.
And when Rey screams? Kylo looks at her and clearly sees that he is shaken but still does nothing
avatar
Teo oswald
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 269
Likes : 1100
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 26
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 11:17 am

@Teo oswald wrote:
And when Rey screams? Kylo looks at her and clearly sees that he is shaken but still does nothing
@Teo oswald

Yes, and that must have been really really hard for him. Self-control isn't something that comes naturally to him (duh  Rolling Eyes )  - but he keeps it together for her. I still can't get over the way they look at each other after Ben killed Snoke. That's so intense! And seeing that people still claim it's all platonic? Pfff!!!
avatar
Night Huntress
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 946
Likes : 4477
Date d'inscription : 2017-08-24
Age : 35
Localisation : Switzerland

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 11:38 am

@Night Huntress

it must have been hard for him to see the woman who loves being tortured like that. Well done Ben I'm proud of you Thumbs up

Mark hamill said that this film has many shots on the hands, I also add many looks between our young lovers.

His desire for her is clear as the light of the sun , only those who do not want to see will deny. To convince them there must be a kiss
but do not worry, daddy JJ makes everyone happy Mwehe
avatar
Teo oswald
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 269
Likes : 1100
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 26
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 1:48 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:Yeah I took it to mean that their connection was growing stronger too. They literally reach across the galaxy to touch hands so that should give you an idea of how strong it became. He's also being pulled into her surroundings. On another note, I know we've joked around about how they should have kissed in the elevator or what have you, but it's probably a good thing they didn't. We now know from Rian's Q&A that Kylo basically planned to kill Snoke before going into the throne room because of Rey, but he didn't know how (which is the most Solo thing ever btw). So he was trying to shroud his true intentions from Snoke in the elevator which is why he appears distant/distracted in his own thoughts. Kissing Rey would have revealed to Snoke his feelings for the enemy and they would have both been in big trouble (I mean I think Snoke had some idea and underestimated the strength of his feelings but this would have been too obvious). But also, not to mention Kylo would have been an emotional mess if that happened and he needed strength and resolve in that moment to save Rey and fool his master.
@Kylo Rey

It's interesting how the first time it happens, when he's in 'Tap tap, how does this thing work?" mode while Rey's screaming insults at him, he tells her that he can't see her surroundings, just her (d'awww). So when Luke c*ckblocks their smut hut hand holding session, one of the PoV shots is his and it shows Ben clearly sitting there next to the fire inside of the hut, touching hands with Rey. He's gone from being in his environment and able to see hers to being fully pulled into it. The pull to the Light as it were.

So two observations:

1 - Han's warning to Ben, "when Snoke gets what he wants, he'll crush you." appears from the Visual Dictionary to be part of Ben's impetus to both betray Snoke and take over the First Order. Hence the helmet smashing scene. But the meaning could be two-fold. We know that Snoke has long thought that there would be an Equal in the Light in response to Ben's power in the Darkside. Which he thought was Luke, hence the chase after the map in TFA and his 'test' requiring Ben to kill Han (which makes Han's death even more tragic) to prove that unlike Vader, he can overcome the tie/sentiment of family. But when Snoke figures out that it's Rey instead of Luke who represents this threat (Light and Hope) to his control over the Force and the galaxy, that's an additional meaning to Han's warning. If Ben went through with Snoke's orders and killed her, it's what Snoke wants (because Rey is the greatest threat to his agenda on the Force side of things) and it would crush him even more than murdering Han did. Because he loves her and he later admits that she's "[everything] to him." Third potential meaning because we know RJ is a PT fan, Snoke potentially thought that Ben would go full Vader and also kill the woman he loves. Except he doesn't, he really is "no Vader" in Snoke's words because he saves her instead.

2. Snoke's "The Cruelist Stroke." line to Rey is obviously about having Ben kill her when they've both started to develop feelings and maybe even fall in love with one another. Especially her coming there after having a vision where it's possible she saw them together in the future, as a couple and the family she's always wanted would be with him. But it's also cruel on top of that because she's already been mortally wounded by the people closest to her, who she loved, her parents in selling her for drinking money and abandoning her to a harsh and cruel life. So her last moment could have been history repeating itself, yet again damaged by people she loves.
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 6982
Likes : 31629
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-16
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Kylo Rey on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 3:25 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:Yeah I took it to mean that their connection was growing stronger too. They literally reach across the galaxy to touch hands so that should give you an idea of how strong it became. He's also being pulled into her surroundings. On another note, I know we've joked around about how they should have kissed in the elevator or what have you, but it's probably a good thing they didn't. We now know from Rian's Q&A that Kylo basically planned to kill Snoke before going into the throne room because of Rey, but he didn't know how (which is the most Solo thing ever btw). So he was trying to shroud his true intentions from Snoke in the elevator which is why he appears distant/distracted in his own thoughts. Kissing Rey would have revealed to Snoke his feelings for the enemy and they would have both been in big trouble (I mean I think Snoke had some idea and underestimated the strength of his feelings but this would have been too obvious). But also, not to mention Kylo would have been an emotional mess if that happened and he needed strength and resolve in that moment to save Rey and fool his master.
@Kylo Rey

It's interesting how the first time it happens, when he's in 'Tap tap, how does this thing work?" mode while Rey's screaming insults at him, he tells her that he can't see her surroundings, just her (d'awww). So when Luke c*ckblocks their smut hut hand holding session, one of the PoV shots is his and it shows Ben clearly sitting there next to the fire inside of the hut, touching hands with Rey. He's gone from being in his environment and able to see hers to being fully pulled into it. The pull to the Light as it were.

So two observations:

1 - Han's warning to Ben, "when Snoke gets what he wants, he'll crush you." appears from the Visual Dictionary to be part of Ben's impetus to both betray Snoke and take over the First Order. Hence the helmet smashing scene. But the meaning could be two-fold. We know that Snoke has long thought that there would be an Equal in the Light in response to Ben's power in the Darkside. Which he thought was Luke, hence the chase after the map in TFA and his 'test' requiring Ben to kill Han (which makes Han's death even more tragic) to prove that unlike Vader, he can overcome the tie/sentiment of family. But when Snoke figures out that it's Rey instead of Luke who represents this threat (Light and Hope) to his control over the Force and the galaxy, that's an additional meaning to Han's warning. If Ben went through with Snoke's orders and killed her, it's what Snoke wants (because Rey is the greatest threat to his agenda on the Force side of things) and it would crush him even more than murdering Han did. Because he loves her and he later admits that she's "[everything] to him." Third potential meaning because we know RJ is a PT fan, Snoke potentially thought that Ben would go full Vader and also kill the woman he loves. Except he doesn't, he really is "no Vader" in Snoke's words because he saves her instead.

2. Snoke's "The Cruelist Stroke." line to Rey is obviously about having Ben kill her when they've both started to develop feelings and maybe even fall in love with one another. Especially her coming there after having a vision where it's possible she saw them together in the future, as a couple and the family she's always wanted would be with him. But it's also cruel on top of that because she's already been mortally wounded by the people closest to her, who she loved, her parents in selling her for drinking money and abandoning her to a harsh and cruel life. So her last moment could have been history repeating itself, yet again damaged by people she loves.
@snufkin

It's really interesting as this great post analysing the audiovisual language of the FB scenes lays out what Rian was trying to achieve through the technical aspects. As Pablo Hidalgo pointed out, he uses a fantastic but simple low-tech in camera technique through pure editing, eyelines and intercutting between shot/reverse shot. In the first three force bond scenes they are never sharing the same frame so the film is refraining from putting them in the same environment. This is where the hand-touch scene grows even more significant, as its the first time Rey and Kylo share a wide shot in the entire film until that point. Not only is Kylo being pulled into her surroundings but they are finally visually united and it hits us on a subconscious level.

Link to post here: https://feebtastic.tumblr.com/post/170113684765/an-audiovisual-analysis-of-rey-kylos-force-bond

The "cruelest stroke" line is great because it reveals that Rey will be killed by the man that she has grown to love, and like you said is cruel as she had seen a future with him that was so moving it brought her to tears. Another line that surprised me which I loved was when Snoke says to Rey that "you were not wise enough to resist the bait." It's not just subtext but text that Kylo (through Snoke's pimping, yuck, he really is Hugh Hefner) is presented as temptation for Rey (or sexy emo honeypot as VF likes to call it). He is the "forbidden fruit" that Rey plucks from the Garden of Adam and Eve leading her to Snoke's lair. Their trysts on Ahch-To are also forbidden in nature with Rey gradually finding herself attracted to a "monster" when she shouldn't be and then the midnight meetings with Uncle Luke barging in and ruining everything.
avatar
Kylo Rey
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 512
Likes : 4507
Date d'inscription : 2016-12-24
Age : 21
Localisation : England

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by rey09 on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 3:29 pm

So basically it seems by next movie they should literally be able to freely walk into each other's space, which is so interesting when you look at how Luke's died having to project himself and yet these two can just easily meet up whenever and be totally fine. And this only happens with each other- Rey wouldn't be able to say transport to Finn's location if she sense he needed her help or something. If Finn needs her, she'd have to fly over there, but if Kylo needs her...*zap*! Damn....
avatar
rey09
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1086
Likes : 5321
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-29

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 3:31 pm

Snoke: And look at you. The deed split your spirit to the bone. You were unbalanced.


adam driver: Depends on what your idea of living is

Kylo is not living in a happy way. Now that Luke is gone and Rey not by his side, how will we see him in the last episode?
avatar
Teo oswald
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 269
Likes : 1100
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 26
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 3:43 pm

@Kylo Rey Thanks for the link, I have a tab open and look forward to reading it. Yep, not wise enough to avoid the temptation. Nearly two years ago here when the rest of the Internet was insisting that they were simply cousin-twins where she'd end up killing him after meeting her dad (who her awful emo cousin betrayed before murdering her uncle), we were over here discussing the Adam and Eve imagery and how it was first for the franchise, darkness presents itself as a sexual/romantic temptation. There have been 3 scenes now where they show him taking off the mask with an accompanying sound. It's only the first time, when he takes it off to present himself to Rey (as in "not a creature") that we hear the sound of a hiss and rattlesnake noise. As in the snake which tempts her versus the other trilogies, where it's always been a threat. Here it's forbidden fruit and knowledge - of the Force, of history (truth behind the legend of Luke Skywalker), knowledge about herself she's hidden away, and knowledge about her own emotions and sexuality.

@Vaderito wrote:This is an apple. Aside from the obvious - he's young and beautiful, while previous examples had old and physically damaged tempters, there's  no threats, no flattery, no incentive. He can show her the ways of the Force. Doesn't elaborate what she gains from that knowledge. The point is really in "accept me" "stay with me" "I'm offering myself to you."

There's no big speechifying after he makes his offer and waits to see if she'll accept. That's it. he says it, world is falling apart, he and she share the mortal danger (in previous cases tempters to the Dark Side had a leverage over their temptees) and he doesn't press the point. He just looks at her so you know that he offered himself, not Dark or Light Side. Himself. he is the temptation, not power, ability to save someone, etc. It's just him. An apple.
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 6982
Likes : 31629
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-16
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Kylo Rey on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 4:34 pm

@snufkin wrote:@Kylo Rey Thanks for the link, I have a tab open and look forward to reading it. Yep, not wise enough to avoid the temptation. Nearly two years ago here when the rest of the Internet was insisting that they were simply cousin-twins where she'd end up killing him after meeting her dad (who her awful emo cousin betrayed before murdering her uncle), we were over here discussing the Adam and Eve imagery and how it was first for the franchise, darkness presents itself as a sexual/romantic temptation. There have been 3 scenes now where they show him taking off the mask with an accompanying sound. It's only the first time, when he takes it off to present himself to Rey (as in "not a creature") that we hear the sound of a hiss and rattlesnake noise. As in the snake which tempts her versus the other trilogies, where it's always been a threat. Here it's forbidden fruit and knowledge - of the Force, of history (truth behind the legend of Luke Skywalker), knowledge about herself she's hidden away, and knowledge about her own emotions and sexuality.

@Vaderito wrote:This is an apple. Aside from the obvious - he's young and beautiful, while previous examples had old and physically damaged tempters, there's  no threats, no flattery, no incentive. He can show her the ways of the Force. Doesn't elaborate what she gains from that knowledge. The point is really in "accept me" "stay with me" "I'm offering myself to you."

There's no big speechifying after he makes his offer and waits to see if she'll accept. That's it. he says it, world is falling apart, he and she share the mortal danger (in previous cases tempters to the Dark Side had a leverage over their temptees) and he doesn't press the point. He just looks at her so you know that he offered himself, not Dark or Light Side. Himself. he is the temptation, not power, ability to save someone, etc. It's just him. An apple.
@snufkin

Yep, spot on. Kylo *himself* is the temptation for Rey, not the DS itself. Even though he makes another offer to Rey in TLJ with a slight variation on it, there is again no mention of the DS (just destroying the Jedi and Sith) which is significant as DS users are always promising the power of the darkness and "if only you knew the power" etc etc. His plea is by far the most personal but obviously Rey can't compromise her values to go along with him.
avatar
Kylo Rey
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 512
Likes : 4507
Date d'inscription : 2016-12-24
Age : 21
Localisation : England

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 4:38 pm

@Kylo Rey "His plea is by far the most personal but obviously Rey can't compromise her values to go along with him." - that's what's so powerful about it, he offers her something she's literally hungry for (human companionship, belonging, affection, understanding) and she can't take it because it would break her moral code. Same way handing over BB-8 to Plutt for food would've done the same thing. She would've gained momentary sustenance at the cost of her soul. But both moments show the strength of her character and willingness to put the greater good above her own needs, which makes her Ben's moral superior for now. Even with "you need a teacher," she rejected it b/c it would've put the balance between the two of them in his favor (also - we would've then cut to the Throne Room scene where she dies at Ben's hand b/c they haven't really bonded yet) and Finn would've been left to die. So she keeps passing these tests, next time he has to make another offer and logic dictates the outcome will be different. She'll stand with him b/c it's the right thing to do.
avatar
snufkin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 6982
Likes : 31629
Date d'inscription : 2016-04-16
Localisation : it's in the chorus of Pavement's "Unfair"

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Let The Past Die on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 4:41 pm

@KyloRey

Thank you for the link, it gave me goosebumps reading it, remembering the scenes and also seeing the visual images posted.

I've read some great posts that are on tumbler and elsewhere in the last couple of days by links posted by members here. I would have missed them otherwise.
avatar
Let The Past Die
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 193
Likes : 702
Date d'inscription : 2018-01-10
Localisation :

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Dar-ren19 on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 10:14 pm

@Let The Past Die and @KyloRey

Thanks for the link. Reading right now...

One question that's been in my mind since we started discussing the FB scenes... did Kylo see Luke during the first FB? I'm asking because when Luke came out of his hut, Kylo asks or says "Luke?", right? Is that because she was distracted and he kind of guessed it was Luke, or he actually saw Luke?
avatar
Dar-ren19
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 212
Likes : 702
Date d'inscription : 2018-01-12

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 11:13 pm

I saw some screenshots on Twitter (I think) today pointing out that when Rey and Kylo turn to Luke in the hut, Rey jerks her hand away but Kylo is staring at Luke with his hand still reached out to her. Aww... And I love how just after that, Rey glances back to see if Kylo’s still there (and gets pissed that he’s not).

Edit: found the screenshot, circle around Ben’s arm.
Credit to @_BlackDiam0nd. Are you here??? Razz

avatar
Cowgirlsamurai
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1615
Likes : 8090
Date d'inscription : 2017-03-30
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Teo oswald on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 8:22 am

@Dar-ren19

Kylo did not see Luke, but he suspected it.the echo of his voice echoed
in fact, when Rey tells Kylo that he found Skywalker, Kylo was not surprised.

@Cowgirlsamurai  in fact, Rey behaves like a daughter who has been captured in an intimate act.
Kylo stays still, even if Snoke ordered him to withdraw his hand he would not obey Naw
avatar
Teo oswald
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 269
Likes : 1100
Date d'inscription : 2017-12-12
Age : 26
Localisation : Italy - Trentino Alto-Adige

Back to top Go down

Page 19 of 26 Previous  1 ... 11 ... 18, 19, 20 ... 22 ... 26  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum