Predictions for Episode 9

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by CienaRee on Mon 12 Feb - 3:54

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:
@snufkin wrote:@Irina de France
Completely agree with you. Granted I've said that Luke was the character who interested me the least in the OT as a child. You say apologism, I say hagiography and it's only half exaggerating. Both Rian Johnson and JJ were fully aware of the level of (over)investment some fans have in him, given the decision to keep him off stage in TFA to not overwhelm Rey's introduction. And to introduce him with the "people who are heroes/legends are human too" as a deconstruction of how fandom has built him up to something that's not a like a human being. It's been interesting to read comments and discussions elsewhere from fans who are okay with the decisions Rian made. Except that it has to pivot around making Luke the center and embrace his human failings/redemption and meanwhile to Hell with the rest of the characters. Like there's still a lot of irrational hate towards Ben, the kid whose weird space hermit celebrity uncle convinced his parents to give him away and then is nearly murdered in his sleep by said uncle. Which basically means, they can accept the parts of the story which don't undermine their investment in the character/story without actually taking pains to examine exactly all of its implications. There's definitely not much thought given to how Luke knows (and admits to Rey) that he did a really sh*tty thing to his sister. So that type of mindset, you don't really expect to see much consideration given to how his decisions really impacted/set everything bad thing that happened into the motion, the way it's made clear in the PT.
@snufkin

That's another thing that bothers me. Six years on that island don't give him more perspective: he lies to Rey about how Ben fell (and she is absolutely livid about it afterwards, and with good reason), and when he meets Leia again and says she thinks her kid is gone all dark, Luke doesn't even have the decency of telling her the truth: no, he has to go play heroes so the Resistance/Rebellion Copy-Cat can go all "oooooooh, aaaaaaah" for 5 minutes while running away.
@Irina de France

And remember the scene where he's standing over Rey while she's sleeping and she wakes up to see him looking creepy as hell? It's like he didn't learn anything after his experience with Ben. People jumping through hoops trying to makes justifications for him even considering killing his innocent nephew in his sleep is wild to me when Luke himself admits to Rey that he was wrong and basically came to die on the island as a result of his guilt. I'd go even further and say Kylo was perfectly justified in trying to kill his uncle at the end after what he'd been through. Just imagine waking up in the middle of the night to see one of your beloved family members holding a knife over your bed - it would shatter your trust completely and traumatise you for life. Now imagine that but with lightsabers and force powers, it's 100x worse. Unlike Han's death, Kylo is completely justified in his hatred for Luke.
@"Kylo

Ben was completely justified. First of all, they are in a war setting. They are on different sides. It's like Hector and Achilles in Troy. The only reason anyone thinks Ben has no right to kill Luke is because of the Luke hagiography that @snufkin so astutely pointed out.

Secondly, Luke scars Ben for life. His uncle, his hero,  the galaxy's chosen saint wants him dead. If that doesn't blow up your mind, I don't know what will. Ben was terrified of Luke. Who could go against Luke? The only guy around who could match Luke was Snoke. The real unforgivable part is not even that Luke came this close to killing Ben without trying to help him, it's that Luke didn't risk everything to try to get his nephew back. Who cares that he has self-loathing and is so depressed he had to hide on an island. That was his greatest sin. It took him 6 years to be willing to die to save his nephew (and he was still a d*** about), and he still never told Leia anything, and he still effing lied to Rey at first. Luke is so profoundly self-centered and "woe is me" that it is disgusting. He goes after that demon Vader, but not Ben.  

In the end, that choice alone reflects profound selfishness that I don't think the writers realize has been named into the cake because of the Luke hagiography.  It's in Luke's interest to save Vader, because then it resolves Luke's anguish that he is from bad people. Once Vader is saved, Luke can feel whole and good about himself.

But Ben does not have the same effect on Luke's identity. He is not Luke's kid. He didn't "make" Luke. So it's easy for Luke to write him off. Even when Luke confessed to his reason from trying to kill him he says it's because Ben will "kill everything I loved." Ben is not included in that group. He is made the threat to that group, thus hinting that Ben is not one of the things he loves.

Rian would probably never see this, but it's in there. Luke loves Han and Leia and the Jedi and the Rebellion. Ben is a means to an end.

@snufkin, you're right. Han is the only one who even comes close to coming through.

And @Irina de France, you are kicking a** and taking names with your posts here.

ETA: @CienaRee, we're having a mind meld. :-)
@SoloSideCousin

Yeah,I think Rian meant for the scene to be seen as Luke sacrificing himself for both his nephew and the Resistance but I'm not sure he's aware of the deeper implications of what he'd written.I hope he is though because it would make his death even more profound than just him being the hero for the sake of it.
You make a really good point about Luke's self- centerdness,I'm not sure how intentional it was from the writers but Bloodline implies that Luke had started idolizing his father and separating Anakin from Vader which would be very interesting to explore if/when we get novels/show/movie about Ben's time with Luke.I actually find it interesting that while talking to Ry about the reasons he took Ben as an apprentice he emphasized his Skywalker blood instead of Snoke praying on Ben maybe he didn't know about him at the time but it's still an interesting detail.
I think it's possible Ben idolized his unlce a lot more than he did his parents since he was the one he would have spend his formative years with there was also that underlying resentment and abandonment he probably felt towards his parents that might not have been there with Luke at least the beginning. I mean it's interesting if you compare how be heaves with Han vs his behavior with Luke.With Han he's more calm but you know he's desperately trying to avoid him and the act of murdering him horrifies,it's very similar to how he behaves when he's contemplating whether to kill his mother or not eventually choosing not to.With Luke you can see how much angry and hateful he is towards Luke to the point of being completely unhinged that to me speaks of serious PSD.
At the end of the day despite the huge mistakes Luke and Han did both of them sacrificed  themselves for Ben and the one who'll end up looking worse parenting wise is Leia unfortunately.There's still time for Luke and Ben to have a real conversation even with Luke being a FG that option isn't there for Leia(unless they use CGI or something which would feel weird).

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by nickandnora on Mon 12 Feb - 5:32

Quoting myself here because I found something interesting connected to one of my predictions:

4) Hux’s new superweapon will be Kylo himself (or fuelled by Kylo somehow) against his will.

How certain: Pretty darn certain. Like maybe 80% certain or more? Why? Well, Hux’s thing is impossible weapons so there’s going to have to be something pretty impressive in the finale with that. There was all the talk about both sides procuring the same weapons from DJ (not subtle); FO has Kylo, Resistance has Rey. Also: There was just something about Hux’s first weapon in TFA, where he drained the sun of its energy to charge it… then later on we have Kylo drawing on his pain/wound in order to channel what I assume must be dark side energy (and the camera really zeroing in on that)… I don’t know, there’s the potential to connect those two ideas I think. What I’m less sure about (like have absolutely no idea about) is the mechanism behind it. Does Hux just blackmail Kylo into using his mind to blow stuff up? Does he actually entrap him? I’m think it’s a combination of the two with an emphasis on the latter. But again, not sure about that specific part.
Now, you guys have to excuse me for sounding like a TOTAL newbie here with the information I'm about to introduce, because I'm not familiar with ANY extra canon material outside the Star Wars films themselves. But basically about an hour ago I was like: "Let me search the internet to see if there's anything that fits the description of what I've predicted about an IX superweapon that might possibly use the Force or actual people to power it.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Reaper

Most notably, from the above link:

The Dark Reaper worked by harvesting the Force using the Force Harvester, a device that killed anything within range by draining its Force energy and focusing it into beams that dealt massive damage to any object.
So it's a weapon that's powered by harvesting the Force itself, which is essentially what I was looking for.

A quick look at the Force Harvester entry proved even more interesting:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Harvester

An ancient Sith artifact that served as a power source for the Dark Reaper superweapon, the Force Harvester was a large swirling globe that produced a destructive form of purple energy that drained the living force from anyone it came in contact with within a small area, producing a concentrated form of dark side energy that would be used to power the Dark Reaper.
!!!

"You should be honored. You will be the first Jedi in a thousand years to feel the effects of the Harvester. Your lifeforce will be absorbed, as well as everything else in this forest, and in the end, I will destroy the Republic you fought so hard to defend."
!!!!!

I mean, you guys, am I crazy or is this exactly a prototype for what I was suggesting above? That's pretty exciting. I think I found a possible mechanism for Hux's (totally theoretical, borne out of an idea in my crazy brain) new weapon!

(If there's some kind of "weapons of Star Wars" thread or something I should be posting in, let me know. I didn't see anything on first glance, but I was overexcited, lol).

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Lily Snape on Mon 12 Feb - 12:36

@ZioRen wrote:More random predictions: Mourning Leia is going to be how IX starts and the reason for Rey and Kylo's first Force connection in a long time. If it's a First Order attack that killed her, it's going to end up being something Hux orchestrated without asking for Kylo's permission. Rey is going to be absolutely furious with him at first and then slowly realize that no, Kylo didn't give that order.

If the Knights of Ren end up being antagonists to both Kylo and Rey, at least one is going to have sympathy and defend Kylo. There isn't a doubt that they're the students who went with Ben back during the temple destruction, so why give them such meaningful history if it's going to amount to nothing? At the same time, I think the situation will be that the Knights of Ren in general were always more loyal to Snoke than Kylo. If Hux uses the KoR against Kylo, it'll be because he finds out and informs them that Kylo was the one who offed Snoke.

One more: Thus far, Kylo has always been pretty calm and relatively soft around Rey. Despite everyone assuming he would, he's never yelled at her or really threatened her to her face. I think that's going to change in IX, and he's going to lose it at her verbally at least once during a darker moment of frustration or trying to keep up his new image. Maybe earlier on rather than later, as part of the "will he really redeem himself?" tension that's probably going to be big in IX. Of course, it'll be all talk in the end. This is based on nothing solid, just a hunch.
@ZioRen

I’d bet your prediction about Leia’s death and their mutual mourning will be correct. And I bet it will quickly become obvious that Ben is wrecked by his mother’s death and had nothing to do with it, thus reopening possibilities with Rey. But I don’t see him getting angry with her again—I think “You’re still holding on!! Let go!!!” was enough. Not to mention “Shoot that piece of junk out of the sky” (although he may not have known she was on it) and “I’ll destroy her.” Or going back a bit, her shooting her blaster at him and slashing his face up while he’s disarmed, him abducting her, and the infamous tree scene as his response to her blaster shots....in short, I know they’ve gone quickly from enemies to potential lovers, but although the physical violence against each other abated quickly, the drama and anger was still there in TLJ. I don’t think the Powers That Be are going to want to leave any question of a potentially abusive relationship.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Teo oswald on Mon 12 Feb - 19:08




.@Lily Snape
I’d bet your prediction about Leia’s death and their mutual mourning will be correct. And I bet it will quickly become obvious that Ben is wrecked by his mother’s death and had nothing to do with it, thus reopening possibilities with Rey


I would not be so sure, I hope they show their mutual mourning Smile but in episode VIII, after Kylo refuses to shoot at Leia's ship, we no longer see Kylo thinking about Leia, even when he goes on Crait. they cut and this was a serious mistake. Sad
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by giaciak2 on Mon 12 Feb - 19:38

@snufkin wrote:This is really good, including multiple shout outs to the writings/podcasting of various members here. Wouldn't be surprised if he lurks here and sounds like he's listened to the Jane Eyre podcast and has thoughts along those lines.

No One’s Ever Really Gone: The Synergy of The Heroic, Tragic, and Poetic Arcs in the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy

When confronting how to approach the Sequel Trilogy, the first thing I assume they established was using the three films to reverse the tragedy of Anakin’s fall. So, in some ways, they found themselves hemmed in by what had come before, but also had some serious decisions to make concerning a final element: by subverting the tragic trope, it makes the narrative of the tragedy inapplicable, and it must be supplanted by something else. Also, because the poetic device used to reverse prior stanzas is palindrome, all major elements and roles needed to be reversed. That leads to a few conclusions that explain a LOT.

In reversing Anakin’s fall, the same tragic archetypes must be used for the new characters. However, because of the palindrome, the production’s hand was forced in a few areas. First, the heroic role had to be the female counterpart to the Usurper, taking the tragic figure out of the Hero’s role. This is key. If the tragic figure is not the capital-h Hero, the tragedy can be avoided if the Hero/Heroine’s Journey overrides the tragic conclusions.

.......

The Heroine’s Journey differs fundamentally from the Hero’s Journey in that the Heroine is much more attuned to the Shadow than a Hero, gaining mastery over the darkness through understanding instead of conflict. Another important distinction is the Heroine’s Journey’s interest in family, and the transition from childhood to womanhood to motherhood. Where the Hero’s Journey is more anodyne and chaste, the Heroine’s Journey is explicitly a journey of sexual awakening, with one of the elements including marriage to the Animus (often portrayed as Prince Charming, et al), and eventual consummation and sexual union with him. The Animus is a true counterpart, representing the yin to her yang, completing the whole, and this relationship is essential in the Heroine’s Journey.

There are many examples of conflation of elements in the Heroine’s Journey, and here, as in Beauty and the Beast, Kylo Ren is both an agent of the Shadow, and the Heroine’s Animus. Because the Heroine must confront and overcome the Shadow, and also wed the Animus, the major conflict of her Journey becomes freeing her lover from the Shadow’s influence.

Fairy tale offers a lot of rich territory to mine, but it’s short on substance. This is where narrative structure comes into play. You have the poetic goal, the tragic character archetypes, and the Heroine’s Journey running through it. But what structure will the story adopt?

This is the point where my analysis of the synergies of these elements hit a snag, even though it was staring me right in the damn face: the story is being told as a Byronic gothic romance. The first response to this might be: why? Because Star Wars uses what works. And the Byronic tradition is perhaps the most effective and emotionally resonant model that employs a capital-h Heroine with a tragic lover who must be freed from the darkness.

........

Gothic romances very often end in tragedy (see Wuthering Heights), but only when there is no true capital-h Heroine to drive the narrative. When there is no true heroic figure, tragic flaws will rule the day in stories heavily tilted toward tragic ends. But in this iteration of Star Wars, we have a Heroine, whose mythic archetype and narrative role are tied up in the redemption of her lover, and since she’s on a Heroine’s Journey, and doesn’t have a tragic flaw herself, the rules of the game dictate she has to triumph.

......
With this formula, it becomes very possible to game out what will happen in Episode IX with a startling degree of specificity. Remember, this is my interpretation, applying the formula I’ve detailed above and supplementing my own personal conjecture and assumptions as necessary. So, again acknowledging that some of these basic predictions have been made before, here goes:

Rey and Kylo will remain severed in their bond for the first part of the movie. They must be made to feel the sting of loneliness and recognize the incompletion only cured by the other’s presence in their lives.

Rey will find solace in her new family for awhile, but will not be able to replace the feeling of belonging and completion she feels with Kylo. This longing will act as a real source of conflict and represent a constant struggle to stave off the Shadow (the Dark Side).

Supreme Leader Kylo Ren will try to convince himself that he only used Rey to help him usurp Snoke’s throne, if only as an attempt to shield himself from the reality that he has been abandoned by his Queen, and will continue to seek her, but probably use the excuse of pursuing the Resistance as justification.

The Knights of Ren will appear as Kylo’s personal honor guard and act as military commanders as well, another poke in the eye to General Hux. The Knights will represent Kylo’s stated ideal to begin a new order of Force users, one that has its basis in the Dark Side. If this is the case, I foresee Rey tangling with at least one of them in the front half of the movie (she’ll probably kill the Knight, having no other choice, and giving the other Knights a vengeance incentive to track her down and kill her).

Leia’s death will cause a real shift in the status quo for both Rey and Kylo, as the shock of her passing will leave them both vulnerable. I assume this will cause the Force to join them, and they will have a reckoning about their parting and an acknowledgment/reinforcement of the feelings they have for each other (though it’s likely this will still remain implicit for the time being). Unless they go for the gold and have them initiate physical contact through the Force again, only this time without Uncle Luke outside the door (the tragic trope suggests physical contact here due to the loss of the Usurper’s birth mother, but that could be toned down or delayed for dramatic effect). It’s also entirely possible that this could actually be an in-person meeting, but I doubt that for plot reasons.

Rey’s connection with Kylo will be revealed to the Resistance. Not sure how this will happen exactly, but its effect will be to cause separation and distrust between Rey and her adopted family.

The consequences of the revelation of the Force Bond to the Resistance will cause the rebels to make a fatal mistake. The First Order will move to finish the Resistance, and this time it’ll be for good.

About this time, Kylo is going to find himself in the midst of some extreme conflict. The pull to the Light will be stronger than ever, and I anticipate he will call once more to Vader for guidance. Typically, Sith cannot be Force Ghosts, but Anakin was redeemed, so his spirit endures. I anticipate it will be a riven, tortured existence, and we’ll get some spectacular visual effect that shifts his ghost from blue to red, with the red one maimed, burned, and scarred. This experience will shake him to his foundations.

For her part, I wrestled with whether Rey would also receive supernatural guidance from Luke’s Force Ghost, but I’ve come down on the side of that not being the case. Rey is past the point in the Heroine’s Journey where she’s looking to father figures for guidance. Rey’s reconciliation with the mother figure will probably have to come through some form of interaction with something left behind by Leia, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Maz Kanata reprise her quest giver role in a more motherly capacity, with a symbolic or literal passing of the torch, so to speak.

Having made his decision (“I know what I have to do” part 3?), Kylo will attempt to sabotage the First Order’s assault from the inside. This attempt will not go as planned (Kylo’s not much of a planner), and Hux’s long-anticipated coup will spring into action.

Having learned of his betrayal, the Knights of Ren will turn on Kylo, each of them having been trained to seek power over all else. I expect some of them will go with the assault force (which was at least partially successfully f**** up by Kylo’s attempt at sabotage— something that the Resistance will know was his doing), while the rest lie in wait to ambush Kylo as he goes to either escape or re-establish control.

During his fight with the Knights, Kylo will be badly wounded, but will manage to escape. Having made his way as far as he can on his own, he’ll either consciously or unconsciously call out to Rey through the Force.

Rey will hear his call and will go to him, and I expect that will be over the objection of her friends, and may result in Rey threatening violence against one of them (Finn, probably) if they try to stop her (still on the fence about this).

Finding him wounded, Rey and Kylo’s reunion will be cut short by the remaining Knights of Ren. Rey will fight them and hold her own for awhile, but will soon be overpowered, and an injured Kylo will join the fight and save her life. Together they’ll finish off the remaining Knights, thus bringing an early end to the new order.

Meanwhile, Hux and the First Order, having been more debilitated by Kylo’s betrayal than it first appeared, are losing to a resurgent Resistance fleet. Hux’s brief tenure as Supreme Leader will end in ignominy, his death coming in as humiliating a fashion as befits the smallness of his character.

The defeat of the First Order will be attended by Something Very Bad (I haven’t a clue as to what that could be, but suffice it to say I anticipate it would be some kind of kamikaze self-destruct protocol that’ll threaten both the Resistance fleet and a massive number of civilians).

Rey and Kylo, able to see this Something Very Bad happening from their vantage, will risk everything to save everyone else, and do something with the Force, working together, that will blow our minds. Like stop a Star Destroyer from falling on a city, or something equally as impossible. I expect this will involve them coming together physically (probably holding hands), to juxtapose them being separated at the end of TFA and TLJ.

The Resistance will be saved, and the First Order decimated beyond reckoning. Those who witnessed it know they were saved by the Force, and the only two people capable of wielding it in such a way.
@Snufkin

I can answer only today ! THANK YOU for this post ! H-beating
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by giaciak2 on Mon 12 Feb - 19:44

@nickandnora wrote:Hey guys! I wrote a thing. Smile

I've been working on this for a little while because I've mentioned that I have a lot of oddly specific predictions for Episode IX based on a lot of little things in TFA, TLJ, and some based on my knowledge of story structure in general. I've talked about the majority of these here and there on this board since my arrival, but I had a strong urge to put it all in one post because I want to be able to link back to it (for myself) as the next two years progress and filming spoilers get underway (though I realize we may have precious few of those) and then eventually when promotion/trailers start as well.

These are all basically Reylo-centric predictions. I have some other vague ideas about Finn's arc, Poe's arc, how they might deal with Leia in relation to Kylo, etc. but I tried to stick to the ones I have the strongest feelings about, and could explain my reasoning behind. I'm including explanations of how sure I am about each one as it gives me a bit of a chance to explain some of the evidence (if there is any) behind each prediction.

Without further ado, here it is:

Star Wars IX Reylo Predictions:

1) Rey will construct a double-sided lightsaber from the broken one.

How certain: Almost 100% and I believe many of you here are of the same mind. Evidence: the prime jedi symbol, the oppositely lined up lightsaber motif, Kylo’s own lightsaber with the cracked crystal and hilt (ie. I think Rey’s crystal is also now cracked which will also affect the type of lightsaber she can now build).

2) Rey and Ben will have one early force-connect that will be overheard by a member of each of the FO and the Resistance.

How certain: Not very. This is a completely up-in-the-air guess for me as a plot point. What makes me think *something* like this might occur is that it would accomplish a couple of things: 1) give us a Rey/Kylo scene early on (because they’re the best), and 2) allow Hux to confirm some of his suspicions about Kylo while also zeroing in on a key weakness of his. But there are certainly other events J.J. could write to get the ball rolling.


3) Hux will stage a coup against Kylo using his own Knights of Ren against him.

How certain: I’m certain about the first part. I’m less certain about the second part. My reasoning is that there’s no way that Hux could accomplish anything against Kylo alone, the Knights of Ren are also force users, and they certainly outnumber and could overpower Kylo. Plus, if their ultimate loyalty is/was to Snoke (and not Kylo) and they found out for certain that it was Kylo who killed him I don’t think they’d need much more motivation than that.

4) Hux’s new superweapon will be Kylo himself (or fuelled by Kylo somehow) against his will.

How certain: Pretty darn certain. Like maybe 80% certain or more? Why? Well, Hux’s thing is impossible weapons so there’s going to have to be something pretty impressive in the finale with that. There was all the talk about both sides procuring the same weapons from DJ (not subtle); FO has Kylo, Resistance has Rey. Also: There was just something about Hux’s first weapon in TFA, where he drained the sun of its energy to charge it… then later on we have Kylo drawing on his pain/wound in order to channel what I assume must be dark side energy (and the camera really zeroing in on that)… I don’t know, there’s the potential to connect those two ideas I think. What I’m less sure about (like have absolutely no idea about) is the mechanism behind it. Does Hux just blackmail Kylo into using his mind to blow stuff up? Does he actually entrap him? I’m think it’s a combination of the two with an emphasis on the latter. But again, not sure about that specific part.


5) Poe, after learning about Rey’s connection to Kylo Ren, will attempt to use her to spy on the FO.

How sure: It’s likely, but it’s also dependent on my #2 prediction being a thing, which is one I’m less sure of.

6) When they realize what’s happening to Kylo Ren, Poe will respond by wanting to weaponize Rey (obviously not by the same mechanism as Hux), while Rey will respond by wanting to save Kylo.

How sure: I’m pretty darn confident about some version of this one. I’m not sure how far they’ll actually take it (probably not far), but the mere suggestion being made - ("Hey Rey, can't you just blow THEM up with your mind?") - will probably be telling enough in itself. But obviously Rey will react by wanting to save Kylo: see Rose’s anvilicious comment at the end of TLJ for the most obvious foreshadowing known to mankind.


7) Multiple people will don the Kylo Ren costume (I have some vague idea that different Knights of Ren will wear it to impersonate Kylo), and eventually Rey herself will wear it.

How sure: The first part is just a hunch because IF I’m right that Hux somehow gets the upper hand on Kylo but doesn’t actually want people to *know* about it, he has an excellent mechanism to keep that ruse going for a long time (the costume, the voice modulator). As for Rey wearing it… again, not sure I have any specific evidence, but I just feel like it’s a logical progression for her as a character.

8 ) Rey will defeat all the Knights of Ren.

How sure: I just think it would be cool. Smile


9) I’m calling a very specific image now: You know the lined up lightsaber motif? Movie 1 – Their lightsabers line up as they fight against each other. Movie 2 – Their lightsabers line up as they fight with each other. Movie 3 – The lined up lightsaber image will be Rey’s double-sided lightsaber piercing through both of their bodies at the same time (they won’t die).

How sure: Sure. Very, very sure. Not only is it the natural progression of the lightsaber motif, it’s basically the perfect sex metaphor.

10) Neither Rey nor Ben will have their powers any more at the end of the film.

How sure: Hrrmmmmph. I’m pretty sure about Ben. I’m less sure about Rey. She might have some kind of subdued version of powers… but I still think “not.” I can’t help but believe that these films are trying to demonstrate that no two people should be AS powerful as Rey and Ben are, or have the potential to be. It’s too extreme.

11) Rey and Ben will “become” each other. Kind of. It’s… hard to explain. You’ll know what I mean when you see it onscreen?

How sure: 100%. My evidence? The films. Lol. No, it’s just that I could write a whole essay about the evidence (direct and indirect) for this. The prime jedi symbol is a good starting point, but it’s by no means just that.

12) Ben will escape in the Millennium Falcon.

How sure: Pretty sure. No direct evidence for this, but it IS his father’s ship, and Rey has now looked down on him from it twice now, and I think we’re going to get him looking down at her from it as well.

13) When the time is “right” Rey and Ben will meet again on Jakku (where the landscape will be completely changed).

How sure: Also pretty sure, though I know many others have alternate versions of this idea (Ahch-To, Tatooine, Naboo, etc.) The reason I think Jakku is for the same reason that we all believe in reverse Amidala. I think a lot of this story is about going back to the beginning, but differently. This particular trilogy started with Rey and Kylo on Jakku, and I think it’s going to end there as well. Another thing: Maz’s “prophecy” to Rey. The people who she was waiting for on Jakku are never coming back, but there’s someone who still could. Answer 1: Ben Solo. Answer 2: Rey, because she will literally be the person who returns to Jakku, when she started the story waiting for someone to return to Jakku. It’s a neat twist/symmetry.


14) Ben will have penned his entire family history during their separation (the new “Jedi texts”).

How sure: Same answer as the previous three as in “pretty sure.” Evidence: the calligraphy set for starters. The aforementioned “going back to the beginning, but differently” theme. Also, is there a better artist/author surrogate in these damn films than Ben-freaking-Solo? Storytellers are by their very nature emotional, after all. Smile (Bonus: the meta “you have no place in this story” during Kylo’s proposal to Rey).

15) Implied: Rey and Ben spend the rest of their days together on their Jakku island paradise.

How sure: Look, if you were on an island with a shirtless Ben Solo (because obviously he would be, all the time) who looked at you like you were the reason he woke up every morning and made mad passionate love to you every night (again: obviously), would YOU ever leave?!


BONUS PREDICTION: A direct descendant of Reylo’s will be identified at the end of the film by being in possession of Han’s dice.

How sure: Have you ever had a hunch about something based on next to nothing? That’s what this is.


Thanks for indulging me!!! :-D
@nickandnora

Good job. May the force be with you
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by giaciak2 on Mon 12 Feb - 19:50

@Irina de France wrote:Okay, rant under the cut, I'll move this to another thread if necessary.

Spoiler:
Seriously, I am so not looking forward to the upcoming Luke apologism. And there are two big reasons:

1) The big reason why TLJ doesn't sit well with fanboys is that it's a big deconstruction of "the myth of Luke Skywalker", by showing the audience that he's not a god, or a saint, but a human being who can make mistakes like everyone else. It was also a meta commentary on the old EU as well and how it would portray Luke. He was basically a Grand Jedi Master God who could never do anything wrong, and it was the most frustrating thing ever. And one of the big lessons he wanted to teach to Ben in their last confrontation was that no matter how much you screw it up, there's always a way of coming back, because "no one is ever truly lost".

2) Seriously, can people stop making excuses for Luke and even Poe just because they have a "Good Guy" tag on them? It took literal YEARS before most of the GA finally caught up with how the Jedi Council in the PT screw it up themselves, big time. Luke sensed darkness, and instead of helping his nephew destroy the source of it, nope, better kill off a kid in his sleep. He changes his mind and he's ashamed of himself, okay, but he gets caught and obviously, Ben is scared shitless, dares to defend himself to not get killed by his uncle, has half the students attacking him, and he runs off with whoever is left.
What does Luke do? He doesn't even have the balls to go after his nephew, and he doesn't have the balls to tell his sister, aka THE MOTHER, what really happened. Nope, he sends them all on a crazy treasure hunt and goes to hide.  Nevermind that Ben is now running towards his abuser because there's no one else he can trust, and that he probably has PTSD and insomnia because of Luke, and nevermind that Han and Leia are left in the dark, assuming the worst. But poor Luke on his lonely island, amirite?  
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cheers Good work!
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by AhsokaTano on Mon 12 Feb - 21:30

Ok guys I’ve been looking for this for ages - am
Sure this has come up in one of the encyclopaedia Star Wars books too ( or the atlas book) - it’s regarding R2 D2 as a keeper of the whills and recounting and recording in particular the whole skywalker family saga and recounting their effect on galactic history once they’ve gone. This gives me hope guys about skywalkers continuing because R2 is recounting the skywalker family saga in 104 ABY - Ben Solo at this point would be 99 years old if still alive - why is this significant? Because it suggests we are getting more generations of skywalkers because why would R2 choose to recount in 104 ABY ? Something significant by then must have happened I think - maybe the death of the very last skywalker perhaps ? This suggests we still have two or three generations of skywalkers at least . R2 being a keeper of the whills is canon ( one of the reasons he was swapped for bb8 too to go to
Anch to).

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Keeper_of_the_Whills


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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Teo oswald on Mon 12 Feb - 23:33

@"Ahsoka Tano"

R2D2 is the hero par excellence of all star wars, he has saved more lives than all the heroes of star wars
he met more people that anyone else , he knows star wars from the beginning SmileSmile
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by AhsokaTano on Mon 12 Feb - 23:43

Very true and unlike c3p0 he’s never been mind wiped - R2 is our historian ! Smile

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 13 Feb - 9:13

@AhsokaTano wrote:Ok guys I’ve been looking for this for ages - am
Sure this has come up in one of the encyclopaedia Star Wars books too ( or the atlas book) - it’s regarding R2 D2 as a keeper of the whills and recounting and recording in particular the whole skywalker family saga and recounting their effect on galactic history once they’ve gone. This gives me hope guys about skywalkers continuing because R2 is recounting the skywalker family saga in 104 ABY - Ben Solo at this point would be 99 years old if still alive - why is this significant? Because it suggests we are getting more generations of skywalkers because why would R2 choose to recount in 104 ABY ? Something significant by then must have happened I think - maybe the death of the very last skywalker perhaps ? This suggests we still have two or three generations of skywalkers at least . R2 being a keeper of the whills is canon ( one of the reasons he was swapped for bb8 too to go to
Anch to).

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Keeper_of_the_Whills

@AhsokaTano

Actually the wording of that passage does not indicate that all of the Skywalkers have died by 104 BBY. R2 is just relating their importance in the galactic wars. So that means war should get at least two adult generations, with the second generation having living kids.

That being said, this may be based on pre-Disney materials, so I don't know if this aspect has or will be incorporated.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by CienaRee on Tue 13 Feb - 9:29

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@AhsokaTano wrote:Ok guys I’ve been looking for this for ages - am
Sure this has come up in one of the encyclopaedia Star Wars books too ( or the atlas book) - it’s regarding R2 D2 as a keeper of the whills and recounting and recording in particular the whole skywalker family saga and recounting their effect on galactic history once they’ve gone. This gives me hope guys about skywalkers continuing because R2 is recounting the skywalker family saga in 104 ABY - Ben Solo at this point would be 99 years old if still alive - why is this significant? Because it suggests we are getting more generations of skywalkers because why would R2 choose to recount in 104 ABY ? Something significant by then must have happened I think - maybe the death of the very last skywalker perhaps ? This suggests we still have two or three generations of skywalkers at least . R2 being a keeper of the whills is canon ( one of the reasons he was swapped for bb8 too to go to
Anch to).

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Keeper_of_the_Whills

@AhsokaTano

Actually the wording of that passage does not indicate that all of the Skywalkers have died by 104 BBY. R2 is just relating their importance in the galactic wars. So that means war should get at least two adult generations, with the second generation having living kids.

That being said, this may be based on pre-Disney materials, so I don't know if this aspect has or will be incorporated.
@SoloSideCousin

I think this is from the EU Journal of Willis but I won't be surprised if that bit is incorporated to the canon.Disney seems to choose the best parts of the EU and add them with their own twists.But you can totally bet R2 will be the one passing the Skywalker family story from a generation to generation since he's the only one to know all of their history and members really (poor Thripio's memory was erased).

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by bashfulblueeyes3 on Tue 13 Feb - 19:51

I have this ending seen in my head where you see two little twins being put to bed and C3P0 is telling them a story starting with, "Once Upon a Time there was a Queen and a little slave boy". Of course, R2-D2 is chiming in now and then when C3P0 forgets something. We find out at the end, that is twins are Rey and Ben's. Dreaming, I know, but it would be such a cute and fitting ending.

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Teo oswald on Tue 13 Feb - 20:11


I have this feeling, when I saw Finn on Crait telling Poe "we have to help him", I would not mind seeing a clash between Kylo and Finn again, I do not know why but I think it has its own logic, what do you think? Do you want to see Kylo vs Finn again?
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Night Huntress on Tue 13 Feb - 20:19

@Teo oswald wrote:
I have this feeling, when I saw Finn on Crait telling Poe "we have to help him", I would not mind seeing a clash between Kylo and Finn again, I do not know why but I think it has its own logic, what do you think? Do you want to see Kylo vs Finn again?
@Teo oswald

Yes, definitely - but I want it to end in a hug...like someone mentioned in that tweet. That would be cute! Cheek kiss
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Teo oswald on Tue 13 Feb - 20:45

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Teo oswald wrote:
I have this feeling, when I saw Finn on Crait telling Poe "we have to help him", I would not mind seeing a clash between Kylo and Finn again, I do not know why but I think it has its own logic, what do you think? Do you want to see Kylo vs Finn again?
@Teo oswald

Yes, definitely - but I want it to end in a hug...like someone mentioned in that tweet. That would be cute! Cheek kiss
@Night Huntress

I think a hug is a bit too much, Smile l remember that Kylo and Finn are not best friends, a hand on the shoulder I could see in the film, a hug .... uhm ... too much Smile

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Night Huntress on Tue 13 Feb - 20:59

@Teo oswald

haha, I know right? I don't think that would really happen... but I hope Kylo & Rey will hug and Finn will look like affraid Laughing
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Teo oswald on Tue 13 Feb - 21:07

@Night Huntress

I hope that Finn finds out about the relationship between Rey and Kylo or that he at least has suspicions as a friend of Rey Smile
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by rey09 on Tue 13 Feb - 21:17

@Teo oswald wrote:
I have this feeling, when I saw Finn on Crait telling Poe "we have to help him", I would not mind seeing a clash between Kylo and Finn again, I do not know why but I think it has its own logic, what do you think? Do you want to see Kylo vs Finn again?
@Teo oswald

I think if Rey tells Finn she senses good in Kylo and wants to save him, he will follow her eyes closed. He is very loyal to Rey and trusts her and I think he will set aside his own hesitations (which are totally valid obviously). And I think as someone who was with the FO for awhile, it would make it easier for him to accept someone from the other side. And if Kylo also saves Finn and the resistance in some way, that helps even more.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Teo oswald on Tue 13 Feb - 21:43

@rey09

for sure he will try to make her think, because he knows how scary the first order and kylo Ren is , but then he would let Rey decide because as you said, he is loyal to her Smile I would also like that she confesses to Finn that she has feelings for Ben just like "I see how you look at Rose, what you feel for her is the same thing I feel for Ben "
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by rey09 on Tue 13 Feb - 22:49

On another idea, I realized they could make Kylo's redemption with elements of a christmas carol lol, the concept it actually very similar- a nice guy who turns mean, but then learn from the ghosts (where Luke comes in). I think that's a cool way to bring about his redemption- reflecting on the past and letting go of the resentment, having visions of a beautiful future he could have with rey, which brings him back to the present with leia's death and the impending climax of the FO vs resistance. He realizes this is his moment, now or never.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by giaciak2 on Tue 13 Feb - 23:08

@Rey09 I like this !
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by snufkin on Tue 13 Feb - 23:44

In terms of wishlist, I really hope if they're going to have Leia's death be a plot point (assuming they're not going to have another actress play her), that it's just something like she passed away off screen as a result of her injuries from the attack. That's enough to provide a moment of shared grief via Force Bond and somebody's guilt being compounded, both can't mourn his mother and the secret of his feelings for Rey/what happened in the Throne Room. Having something like the FO going after her via Hux's orders just feels cheap and stereotypical. Like the whole business in the AotC was really contrived and basically the fridging cliche. Like don't do that to Leia. Besides, the drama of Hux figuring out his weak points and undermining/going after him is 100% going to be centered around Rey.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by californiagirl on Wed 14 Feb - 0:31

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but it would be nice if Connix got a bigger role now that Carrie is gone and won't actually appear on screen. I've liked Billie Lourd in the ST thus far. Maybe she could even get into the Forces of Destiny franchise Smile
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 14 Feb - 0:48

@californiagirl wrote:I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but it would be nice if Connix got a bigger role now that Carrie is gone and won't actually appear on screen. I've liked Billie Lourd in the ST thus far. Maybe she could even get into the Forces of Destiny franchise Smile
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I'd love to see more Connix in IX. Billie Lourd really did a lot with her small-but-expanded role in TLJ.
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