Rey and Kylo Ren observations

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Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Moonjump05 on Wed 30 Mar - 6:54

This is a more general Rey and Kylo Ren in TFA thread for little observations, details or favorites that don't really fit into other threads.

I have been thinking about the cinematic beauty of the end of their duel when the ground opens up between them, an uncrossable chasm, and yet they lock eyes across it and just stare at each other for a timeless moment while the snow makes an unearthly glow around them.

Like, how can you not ship it after that? Rey and Kylo get the most stunningly atmospheric shots.

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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Kylo Ren's 8-Pack on Fri 1 Apr - 1:38

The absolute sheer INTENSITY of almost all the scenes they both share together is just so compelling.

The more you look and listen, the more you see and hear.
It's stunning and totally captivating.

This is what drew me into the film and held my attention.
Rey and Kylo, and how they interact and seem to be intertwined.
The sweetness yet slight savagery or Rey, along with the melencholy and aggression of Ben / Kylo is just fantastic cinema and head canon.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Airemyn on Fri 1 Apr - 12:35

I saw a really interesting diagram showing the positions of Ren/Finn/Rey in the fight scene, I've just been trying to find it but I can't remember exactly what it was called. Sad

I know it was brought up elsewhere and I'm not really in the mood to sift through that.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Darth Rowan on Sun 3 Apr - 3:49

Rant ahead. Humor me, it's late. Recently, in the lobby of my apartment complex: a young dad and his son got out of the elevator as I was on my way in. The boy looked to be around 4 years old. As they walk past me the kid says to me, "We are going to grandma's...picking up grandma and we can go to the pool. We are having ice cream. And I have my goggles here" *showing goggles*

I cracked up of course, and the dad looks at me and says, "He just told you everything he knows."

Because I am obsessed and I have a real problem, this reminded me so much of Kylo Ren.

In the interrogation room:

Kylo Ren: "(the droid) It's carrying a section of a navigational chart. And we have the rest, recovered from the archives of the Empire - but we need the last piece."

He literally just told her "everything he knows" about this map. Really, Kylo Ren?

He blurted it all out like a child, and it really wasn't in his or the FO's best interest for Rey to know that and pass it on to the Resistance. One could say that maybe that was the point of his telling her that to begin with, whether consciously or subconsciously; others might say that this is merely an interrogation technique, but I don't think so -- you don't spill potentially important intel when you're playing "good cop" during an interrogation scene. There's all sorts of things that he could have said instead. Really I think he just likes Rey, likes being close to her and and talking to her and so like a kid he just babbled whatever came into his head.

Just like he blurted, "You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force."

tl;dr: There is a real candor to Kylo Ren in some of his interactions with Rey.

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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by rey09 on Sun 3 Apr - 4:15

@Darth Rowan good point! Didn't even think about that!

As I was re-watching the interrogation scene, specifically when he's trying to break in and she's resisting and then going in...was highly reminiscent of sexual grunting...?! Am I crazy? I was chuckling like what is happening here...?
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 3 Apr - 7:51

rey09 wrote:@Darth Rowan good point! Didn't even think about that!

As I was re-watching the interrogation scene, specifically when he's trying to break in and she's resisting and then going in...was highly reminiscent of sexual grunting...?! Am I crazy? I was chuckling like what is happening here...?
Yes, too many sexual sounds. It's a weird scene and the best of the movie (like on mustafar 2.0) Lolilol
I have a suggestion: can we analyze Rey and kylo's path toward each other (hero's journey)? I remember that you discussed it on the other forum but I was still a lurker and I forgot everything
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by rey09 on Sun 3 Apr - 11:26

@*Maria Antonietta* Haha good to know I'm not the only one! I was pretty resistant to the idea of anything sexual happening there, and I still don't think there is anything overt happening --- at least the characters don't realize it. But it was some weird metaphorical thing.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 3 Apr - 14:54

Maria Antonietta wrote:
rey09 wrote:@Darth Rowan good point! Didn't even think about that!

As I was re-watching the interrogation scene, specifically when he's trying to break in and she's resisting and then going in...was highly reminiscent of sexual grunting...?! Am I crazy? I was chuckling like what is happening here...?
Yes, too many sexual sounds. It's a weird scene and the best of the movie (like on mustafar 2.0) Lolilol
I have a suggestion: can we analyze Rey and kylo's path toward each other (hero's journey)? I remember that you discussed it on the other forum but I was still a lurker and I forgot everything

Ren & Rey in the Hero's Journey, the short version goes like this.

Ren is already well into the darksiders version of the Journey, he has already completed his call and act of seperation before TFA begins

So we find Ren in entering the first threshold

Being asked by Snoke to complete the final test
Approach the inmost cave, or begging Darth Vader to show him the power of the dark side
Meeting with the Goddess ( Rey)
At onement with the Father ( Killing Han)
Finding love in the underworld, ( the moment Rey Pulls the Saber)
Dimemberment ( Scarring by Rey)
Ultimate Boon ( Snoke ) will finish his training in the darkside.

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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 3 Apr - 15:03

For Rey, she begins in Act I

Call to adventure

Finn is her Hook, she has taken the call to get BB8 back to the resistance
this the Bargain without knowing

Rey Supernatural aid, comes from Ren, her Force Fairy Godmother

She enters the Whales Belly with Finn, in Han Solo's Frieghter
He and Chewie become allies

She meets her Mentor Han


She refuses the call to her adventure with the saber from Maz

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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by vaderito on Sun 3 Apr - 17:32

@spacebaby45678 That's awesome! So what cna we expect from Act II (Epi VIII) and Act III (Episode IX)? I'm not good at reading charts but this is so super interesting.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 3 Apr - 18:01

Ach - to = Act two Of the Hero's Journey

I don't think this is an accident

Rey is behind Ren, so she is crossing the first threshold now

Everything that happened to Ren in TFA should happen to Rey

Approach the innermost cave, like Luke in ESb ( he walks into a literal cave) she will have to face her shadow self. Some of the concept art actually shows Rey in a cave

She will meet her bridegroom ( Ren)
She will meet her father or mother ( I am guessing mother)
She will have dismemberment, or harrowing of the soul. ( From some of the leaks ) it sounds like a harrowing of the soul for Rey

Then reward
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 3 Apr - 18:04

For Ren,

We have the reversal

Refusal of the return
and
Rescue from without.

My guess has always been Luke & Rey go to rescue Ren. But that is just a guess

Also, it is my guess that Ren & Rey will actually spend time alone together in EP8
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 3 Apr - 18:17

So their meeting in the forest does not correspond to the confrontation of her shadow? Holy sith
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by rey09 on Sun 3 Apr - 18:25

What exactly is the shadow self? Is there a place where all these terms are explained? Seems the author of this compiled it from many works.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 3 Apr - 18:28

"That place… is strong with the dark side of the Force. A domain of evil it is. In you must go."
"What's in there?"
"Only what you take with you."
―Yoda and Luke Skywalker[src]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 3 Apr - 18:32

Maria Antonietta wrote:So their meeting in the forest does not correspond to the confrontation of her shadow?  Holy sith

No definately no
The shadow is the our subconscious self that resides in the darkside or hidden self, in order to become the hero, the hero must conquer the subconcious fears, habits and beliefs that hold him back




Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative, or (2) the entirety of the unconscious, i.e., everything of which a person is not fully conscious. There are, however, positive aspects which may also remain hidden in one's shadow (especially in people with low self-esteem).[1] Contrary to a Freudian definition of shadow, therefore, the Jungian shadow can include everything outside the light of consciousness, and may be positive or negative. "Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."[2] It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts,[3] which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by spacebaby45678 on Sun 3 Apr - 18:36


Rey's Hero's Journey

I forgot the most important thing. She will find LOVE. I believe that.

Yes she will discover that she loves Ben Solo..

This will lead to her harrowing of soul moment.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Maria Antonietta on Sun 3 Apr - 18:43

Meeting with the goddess reading the meeting with the goddess and seeing the yin yang symbol *screams*
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by MeadowofAshes on Sun 3 Apr - 23:23

Darth Rowan wrote:Rant ahead. Humor me, it's late. Recently, in the lobby of my apartment complex: a young dad and his son got out of the elevator as I was on my way in. The boy looked to be around 4 years old. As they walk past me the kid says to me, "We are going to grandma's...picking up grandma and we can go to the pool. We are having ice cream. And I have my goggles here" *showing goggles*

I cracked up of course, and the dad looks at me and says, "He just told you everything he knows."

Because I am obsessed and I have a real problem, this reminded me so much of Kylo Ren.

In the interrogation room:

Kylo Ren: "(the droid) It's carrying a section of a navigational chart. And we have the rest, recovered from the archives of the Empire - but we need the last piece."

He literally just told her "everything he knows" about this map. Really, Kylo Ren?

He blurted it all out like a child, and it really wasn't in his or the FO's best interest for Rey to know that and pass it on to the Resistance. One could say that maybe that was the point of his telling her that to begin with, whether consciously or subconsciously; others might say that this is merely an interrogation technique, but I don't think so -- you don't spill potentially important intel when you're playing "good cop" during an interrogation scene. There's all sorts of things that he could have said instead. Really I think he just likes Rey, likes being close to her and and talking to her and so like a kid he just babbled whatever came into his head.

Just like he blurted, "You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force."

tl;dr: There is a real candor to Kylo Ren in some of his interactions with Rey.

You also don't have someone strapped down to an interrogation table if you're doing what, in the field, is called a "soft sell".
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by vaderito on Sun 3 Apr - 23:35

@spacebaby45678 Thank you for your amazing work explaining Hero Journey. Yes, she will find love with Ben Solo.

I have a question about ESB scene with Luke in the place strong with the DS. They never elaborated in TP or later in OT about places which are strong with one or the other side. It was always about people but never about places, that instance being an exception. So do you think that there's another place where Rey may go for a challenge and possibly see Vision!Kylo or Mirage!Kylo or Shadow!Kylo?
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by spacebaby45678 on Mon 4 Apr - 0:42

vaderito wrote:@spacebaby45678 Thank you for your amazing work explaining Hero Journey. Yes, she will find love with Ben Solo.

I have a question about ESB scene with Luke in the place strong with the DS. They never elaborated in TP or later in OT about places which are strong with one or the other side. It was always about people but never about places, that instance being an exception. So do you think that there's another place where Rey may go for a challenge and possibly see Vision!Kylo or Mirage!Kylo or Shadow!Kylo?

Yes, it is a cave, concept drawings have shown Rey in a cave and rumors of filming in a cave also.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by BastilaBey on Mon 4 Apr - 0:49

MeadowofAshes wrote:
Darth Rowan wrote:Rant ahead. Humor me, it's late. Recently, in the lobby of my apartment complex: a young dad and his son got out of the elevator as I was on my way in. The boy looked to be around 4 years old. As they walk past me the kid says to me, "We are going to grandma's...picking up grandma and we can go to the pool. We are having ice cream. And I have my goggles here" *showing goggles*

I cracked up of course, and the dad looks at me and says, "He just told you everything he knows."

Because I am obsessed and I have a real problem, this reminded me so much of Kylo Ren.

In the interrogation room:

Kylo Ren: "(the droid) It's carrying a section of a navigational chart. And we have the rest, recovered from the archives of the Empire - but we need the last piece."

He literally just told her "everything he knows" about this map. Really, Kylo Ren?

He blurted it all out like a child, and it really wasn't in his or the FO's best interest for Rey to know that and pass it on to the Resistance. One could say that maybe that was the point of his telling her that to begin with, whether consciously or subconsciously; others might say that this is merely an interrogation technique, but I don't think so -- you don't spill potentially important intel when you're playing "good cop" during an interrogation scene. There's all sorts of things that he could have said instead. Really I think he just likes Rey, likes being close to her and and talking to her and so like a kid he just babbled whatever came into his head.

Just like he blurted, "You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force."

tl;dr: There is a real candor to Kylo Ren in some of his interactions with Rey.

You also don't have someone strapped down to an interrogation table if you're doing what, in the field, is called a "soft sell".
I think he got an adrenaline rush from revealing his face to someone for the first time in so long. He must have been nervous, heart beating fast, and yeah - ended up giving away more than he probably should. It's strangely sweet.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 4 Apr - 2:27

spacebaby45678 wrote:
vaderito wrote:@spacebaby45678 Thank you for your amazing work explaining Hero Journey. Yes, she will find love with Ben Solo.

I have a question about ESB scene with Luke in the place strong with the DS. They never elaborated in TP or later in OT about places which are strong with one or the other side. It was always about people but never about places, that instance being an exception. So do you think that there's another place where Rey may go for a challenge and possibly see Vision!Kylo or Mirage!Kylo or Shadow!Kylo?

Yes, it is a cave, concept drawings have shown Rey in a cave and rumors of filming in a cave also.
Cave concept art is on the bottom.



Looks like Jedi Killer and Kira standing in front of a grey man in a grey chair whose greyness is spreading toward them.

No idea if this was for The Force Awakens or for the sequels.
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