Rey and Kylo Ren observations

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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by snufkin on Sat 8 Apr - 19:08

@motherofpearl1 - the only other situation where I can think of a character engaging in that type of behavior would be Reverend Dimmsdale in The Scarlet Letter. There was a particularly graphic depiction of it in an old public television miniseries that we had here in the States where they don't stint in showing how he mortifies his own flesh as penance for his sins.

Yeah the OT, there's a lot of things which could be darker if Lucas had wanted to dig deeper. Young woman captured/tortured by biological father, is forced to watch annihilation of her adoptive father and home,  has near-incestuous relationship with long-lost twin brother (who is maimed by their biological father), and ends up falling in love with a murderer!


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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by snufkin on Sat 8 Apr - 19:12

motherofpearl1 wrote:
@snufkin

LST's choice of words always sticks in my mind...

Not "You have become something far worse" or "You have become a monster" but "Something has happened to you".
As if his 'fall' might not have have entirely been his fault.

@motherofpearl1

I hope so! If you have Max von Sydow around for 5 minutes and intimate as some past connection, especially to his mother, you'd hope that there's an explanation at least. He doesn't have to be in the flashbacks (there's no hints of him or HF returning in limited rolls) but at least give us something because those statements were cryptic as Hell. It definitely is phrased in a way like "this happened but you can still do something about it."



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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 8 Apr - 19:41

panki wrote:
Cowgirlsamurai wrote:@motherofpearl1

Oh yeah, you can see the blood on his belt. My question is, shouldn't a shot from the bowcaster have ripped a huge hole in his clothing? Like I'm thinking we should be able to see the wound and some exposed skin on his side? Maybe that's too gruesome for Disney.
@Cowgirlsamurai

There is an excellent video on youtube explaining why Kylo didn't get killed when Chewie shot him with the bowcaster....the jist of it is that the distance and angle from which Chewie made his shot reduced the impact....so while Kylo was definitely injured, maybe the wound wasn't wide enough to leave a gaping hole in his clothes and side.

@panki

Good video...I'm pretty sure his innards weren't falling out though. Force or no Force, I doubt anyone could have sprinted through the woods and then fought two people after being eviscerated!!
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Lily Snape on Sat 29 Apr - 6:15

snufkin wrote:@motherofpearl1 - the only other situation where I can think of a character engaging in that type of behavior would be Reverend Dimmsdale in The Scarlet Letter. There was a particularly graphic depiction of it in an old public television miniseries that we had here in the States where they don't stint in showing how he mortifies his own flesh as penance for his sins.

Yeah the OT, there's a lot of things which could be darker if Lucas had wanted to dig deeper. Young woman captured/tortured by biological father, is forced to watch annihilation of her adoptive father and home,  has near-incestuous relationship with long-lost twin brother (who is maimed by their biological father), and ends up falling in love with a murderer!
@snufkin

Was that the Scarlet Letter version by the Boston public television station, with Meg Foster? My professor from grad school was a consultant to it as a Hawthorne expert, instructing the actors and director, and he had STORIES. I think the best one was the actor who played Dimmesdale demonstrating his utter cluelessness about the seriousness to Puritan society of Hester and Dimmesdale having an extramarital affair. It sounded like Dr. C was basically starting at Level Zero.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by snufkin on Sat 29 Apr - 7:05

Lily Snape wrote:
snufkin wrote:@motherofpearl1 - the only other situation where I can think of a character engaging in that type of behavior would be Reverend Dimmsdale in The Scarlet Letter. There was a particularly graphic depiction of it in an old public television miniseries that we had here in the States where they don't stint in showing how he mortifies his own flesh as penance for his sins.

Yeah the OT, there's a lot of things which could be darker if Lucas had wanted to dig deeper. Young woman captured/tortured by biological father, is forced to watch annihilation of her adoptive father and home,  has near-incestuous relationship with long-lost twin brother (who is maimed by their biological father), and ends up falling in love with a murderer!
@snufkin

Was that the Scarlet Letter version by the Boston public television station, with Meg Foster? My professor from grad school was a consultant to it as a Hawthorne expert, instructing the actors and director, and he had STORIES. I think the best one was the actor who played Dimmesdale demonstrating his utter cluelessness about the seriousness to Puritan society of Hester and Dimmesdale having an extramarital affair. It sounded like Dr. C was basically starting at Level Zero.
@Lily Snape

It is, that's the actress with the unearthly colored eyes. Made Hester seem even more unworldly. And what did he think instead, just that they kept it a secret because she was a married woman? Or that he was just into BSDM? Yeah that's the only other time I can think of seeing a character engaging in that time of behavior, self-flagellation.

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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Lily Snape on Sat 29 Apr - 17:20

snufkin wrote:
Lily Snape wrote:
snufkin wrote:@motherofpearl1 - the only other situation where I can think of a character engaging in that type of behavior would be Reverend Dimmsdale in The Scarlet Letter. There was a particularly graphic depiction of it in an old public television miniseries that we had here in the States where they don't stint in showing how he mortifies his own flesh as penance for his sins.

Yeah the OT, there's a lot of things which could be darker if Lucas had wanted to dig deeper. Young woman captured/tortured by biological father, is forced to watch annihilation of her adoptive father and home,  has near-incestuous relationship with long-lost twin brother (who is maimed by their biological father), and ends up falling in love with a murderer!
@snufkin

Was that the Scarlet Letter version by the Boston public television station, with Meg Foster? My professor from grad school was a consultant to it as a Hawthorne expert, instructing the actors and director, and he had STORIES. I think the best one was the actor who played Dimmesdale demonstrating his utter cluelessness about the seriousness to Puritan society of Hester and Dimmesdale having an extramarital affair. It sounded like Dr. C was basically starting at Level Zero.
@Lily Snape

It is, that's the actress with the unearthly colored eyes. Made Hester seem even more unworldly. And what did he think instead, just that they kept it a secret because she was a married woman? Or that he was just into BSDM? Yeah that's the only other time I can think of seeing a character engaging in that time of behavior, self-flagellation.

@snufkin

Apparently the actor who played Dimmesdale didn't see what the problem was that a Puritan married woman would have an affair and an illegimitate child, and I quote: "OK, so he f---s her and she gets pregnant-- what's the big deal?" (!!!!). Um, it's set in 1642. That story is one reason that I always appreciate it when an actor is intelligent and thoughtful enough to, you know, READ THE BOOK. Research the historical period. Expand the mind. It always drives me nuts when someone says they never read the book and that they think that makes their interpretation more pure or something. Aaaaaaaaaaggghhhh...
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by snufkin on Sat 29 Apr - 17:24

@Lily Snape - Oh boy, like maybe ask this question before accepting a job? What a dummy. I could swear that John Hurt plays Hester's husband in that version. Whomever it was, I do remember liking him more because he was a lot smarter and cunning than Dimmsdale. Maybe this is the reason why!
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Lily Snape on Sat 29 Apr - 17:28

snufkin wrote:@Lily Snape - Oh boy, like maybe ask this question before accepting a job? What a dummy. I could swear that John Hurt plays Hester's husband in that version. Whomever it was, I do remember liking him more because he was a lot smarter and cunning than Dimmsdale. Maybe this is the reason why!
@snufkin

Speaking of actors who prepare for their roles, I want Adam Driver to play Dimmesdale, now that I think about it. Smile
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by snufkin on Sat 29 Apr - 17:30

Lily Snape wrote:
snufkin wrote:@Lily Snape - Oh boy, like maybe ask this question before accepting a job? What a dummy. I could swear that John Hurt plays Hester's husband in that version. Whomever it was, I do remember liking him more because he was a lot smarter and cunning than Dimmsdale. Maybe this is the reason why!
@snufkin

Speaking of actors who prepare for their roles, I want Adam Driver to play Dimmesdale, now that I think about it.  :)
@Lily Snape

Like I said, the wound beating immediately made me think of Dimmesdale. And Rey really is the epitome of a temptation pulling him away from his vows/mission, including a romantic/sexual one.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by SoloSideCousin on Sat 29 Apr - 20:49

Lily Snape wrote:
snufkin wrote:@Lily Snape - Oh boy, like maybe ask this question before accepting a job? What a dummy. I could swear that John Hurt plays Hester's husband in that version. Whomever it was, I do remember liking him more because he was a lot smarter and cunning than Dimmsdale. Maybe this is the reason why!
@snufkin

Speaking of actors who prepare for their roles, I want Adam Driver to play Dimmesdale, now that I think about it. Smile
@Lily Snape

Terry Gilliam said that of all the actors he cast for The Man Who Killed Don Quixote over the years that Adam Driver was the only one who read Cervantes. He said that he even sent him notes and suggestions based on the original text. He would do at least as much with Hawthorne. Very Happy
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by SheLitAFire on Sun 30 Apr - 0:32

SoloSideCousin wrote:
Lily Snape wrote:
snufkin wrote:@Lily Snape - Oh boy, like maybe ask this question before accepting a job? What a dummy. I could swear that John Hurt plays Hester's husband in that version. Whomever it was, I do remember liking him more because he was a lot smarter and cunning than Dimmsdale. Maybe this is the reason why!
@snufkin

Speaking of actors who prepare for their roles, I want Adam Driver to play Dimmesdale, now that I think about it. Smile
@Lily Snape

Terry Gilliam said that of all the actors he cast for The Man Who Killed Don Quixote over the years that Adam Driver was the only one who read Cervantes. He said that he even sent him notes and suggestions based on the original text. He would do at least as much with Hawthorne. Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

Ohhhhhhhhhhh that is SO sexy. What I would give to be able to sit with him for an afternoon discussing literature and the psychology behind certain characters.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by snufkin on Sun 30 Apr - 1:37

Even if was the 1970s during the height of the sexual revolution and knowing from my uncle being in the profession that a lot of actors tend to er, get around, I'm still stuck with this mental image of some guy arguing with an expert on the book about why he doesn't understand it's a big deal that his character being a minister in a conservative religious sect slept with a married woman and got her pregnant. But mostly @Lily Snape just sent me down the Internet rabbit hole looking for that version. It's not John Hurt who plays Chillingsworth. But the actor who does is so straight up evil (an example of an actual proper villain) and smart about it, that I remember rooting for him. That plus this pretty boy version of Dimmesdale comes off even more like a coward for letting Hester take the fall for everything. But anyways, I finally watched Thug Notes' summary of the novel and maybe that's what your professor should've used to keep things simple for his actor tutoring session. Then again, they made a ridiculous version with Demi Moore as Hester who gets a happy ending, so people really can be that dumb.

Thug Notes Scarlet Letter

On topic, yeah the wound beating is there as penance for having just killed his father, self-hatred for not being 'strong' enough, and the compulsive compassion/weakness that made him spare Finn and drives him to keep chasing after Rey. He outta be happy in that moment when she calls him a monster, but you can tell that it doesn't.
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Re: Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Post by Kessel on Sun 30 Apr - 5:02

SheLitAFire wrote:
SoloSideCousin wrote:
Lily Snape wrote:
snufkin wrote:@Lily Snape - Oh boy, like maybe ask this question before accepting a job? What a dummy. I could swear that John Hurt plays Hester's husband in that version. Whomever it was, I do remember liking him more because he was a lot smarter and cunning than Dimmsdale. Maybe this is the reason why!
@snufkin

Speaking of actors who prepare for their roles, I want Adam Driver to play Dimmesdale, now that I think about it. Smile
@Lily Snape

Terry Gilliam said that of all the actors he cast for The Man Who Killed Don Quixote over the years that Adam Driver was the only one who read Cervantes. He said that he even sent him notes and suggestions based on the original text. He would do at least as much with Hawthorne. Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

Ohhhhhhhhhhh that is SO sexy. What I would give to be able to sit with him for an afternoon discussing literature and the psychology behind certain characters.
@SheLitAFire

I second that. It is sexy! Smile
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