Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Little_Boots on Tue 10 May - 2:39

@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Guys, it's a larger-than-life fantasy where people can move objects with their minds. Real-life anatomy doesn't apply any more than real-life space travel. They can literally rebuild fully-functional limbs in a galaxy far, far away. They obviously have medicinal capabilities that go far beyond what we have in our present era. Finn isn't going to be in a wheelchair or have nerve damage, Kylo isn't going to lose his arm because of saber slice to the shoulder. If he does lose one it won't be because of this.
@FrolickingFizzgig

My point is that they are sparing Finn from everything. He's the most morally superior brainwashed programmed child soldier eva who wakes up from serious injury like it;s no big deal, who earns everyone's trust within 3 seconds although he's sweating buckets of sweat, while all the evils of the world are poured onto Kylo's head. Bull!
@vaderito

Omg vaderito, I nearly choked on my coca cola. Your killing me, I'm dying hahahaha!
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 10 May - 2:41

@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Guys, it's a larger-than-life fantasy where people can move objects with their minds. Real-life anatomy doesn't apply any more than real-life space travel. They can literally rebuild fully-functional limbs in a galaxy far, far away. They obviously have medicinal capabilities that go far beyond what we have in our present era. Finn isn't going to be in a wheelchair or have nerve damage, Kylo isn't going to lose his arm because of saber slice to the shoulder. If he does lose one it won't be because of this.
@FrolickingFizzgig

My point is that they are sparing Finn from everything. He's the most morally superior brainwashed programmed child soldier eva who wakes up from serious injury like it;s no big deal, who earns everyone's trust within 3 seconds although he's sweating buckets of sweat, while all the evils of the world are poured onto Kylo's head. Bull!
@vaderito
I don't even care enough to complain about that because it's a matter of pure taste. People are different. Some are going to love Finn, some are going to love Kylo. Sadly there seems to be a lot of conflict between the two factions, but there is no argument to be made one way or the other. Taste is purely subjective. We all have preferences.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Mana on Tue 10 May - 2:45

@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Guys, it's a larger-than-life fantasy where people can move objects with their minds. Real-life anatomy doesn't apply any more than real-life space travel. They can literally rebuild fully-functional limbs in a galaxy far, far away. They obviously have medicinal capabilities that go far beyond what we have in our present era. Finn isn't going to be in a wheelchair or have nerve damage, Kylo isn't going to lose his arm because of saber slice to the shoulder. If he does lose one it won't be because of this.
@FrolickingFizzgig

My point is that they are sparing Finn from everything. He's the most morally superior brainwashed programmed child soldier eva who wakes up from serious injury like it;s no big deal, who earns everyone's trust within 3 seconds although he's sweating buckets of sweat, while all the evils of the world are poured onto Kylo's head. Bull!
@vaderito

I love Finn, but I cant help but agree with you. I feel like the writers abused Finn, used him as a red herring with the Jedi stuff, and if it wasn't for John Boyega, and the addition of John and Daisy's offscreen chemistry into the characters of Rey and Finn I don't know how the character would have turned out, as they really had no clear vision for the relatonship between Rey and Finn either. John Boyega gave life to Finn, but I hope Rian can do justice to the character in VIII
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by vaderito on Tue 10 May - 2:46

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Guys, it's a larger-than-life fantasy where people can move objects with their minds. Real-life anatomy doesn't apply any more than real-life space travel. They can literally rebuild fully-functional limbs in a galaxy far, far away. They obviously have medicinal capabilities that go far beyond what we have in our present era. Finn isn't going to be in a wheelchair or have nerve damage, Kylo isn't going to lose his arm because of saber slice to the shoulder. If he does lose one it won't be because of this.
@FrolickingFizzgig

My point is that they are sparing Finn from everything. He's the most morally superior brainwashed programmed child soldier eva who wakes up from serious injury like it;s no big deal, who earns everyone's trust within 3 seconds although he's sweating buckets of sweat, while all the evils of the world are poured onto Kylo's head. Bull!
@vaderito
I don't even care enough to complain about that because it's a matter of pure taste. People are different. Some are going to love Finn, some are going to love Kylo. Sadly there seems to be a lot of conflict between the two factions, but there is no argument to be made one way or the other. Taste is purely subjective. We all have preferences.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I can't like a character written as Finn. Sorry. Everything I said is true. Every single word. He acts untrustworthy (shifting eyes + rivers of sweat) and everyone trusts him including people who don't trust anyone or very few people. he was brainwashed to believe one thing and act one way but he somehow believes another thing (without exposure to the alternative) and acts like Richie from Flashdance. Screw that.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by BastilaBey on Tue 10 May - 2:46

@vaderito I think we will get Finn's past as a stormtrooper catching up with him in the next movie, along with the ethical issue of having killed his former brothers. It doesn't make sense for his character arc for him to just not care about that, especially if we are right in thinking his subplot will be to help liberate the FO's troopers. Thousands of them must have died on SKB, presumably many of them were his friends. If they don't show him caring about that, I will be very disappointed in the shallowness of his characterization.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by vaderito on Tue 10 May - 2:48

@BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito I think we will get Finn's past as a stormtrooper catching up with him in the next movie, along with the ethical issue of having killed his former brothers. It doesn't make sense for his character arc for him to just not care about that, especially if we are right in thinking his subplot will be to help liberate the FO's troopers. Thousands of them must have died on SKB, presumably many of them were his friends. If they don't show him caring about that, I will be very disappointed in the shallowness of his characterization.
@BastilaBey

he doesn't care. he won't liberate anyone. And after shooting at them, they shouldn't follow him.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Little_Boots on Tue 10 May - 2:49

@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Guys, it's a larger-than-life fantasy where people can move objects with their minds. Real-life anatomy doesn't apply any more than real-life space travel. They can literally rebuild fully-functional limbs in a galaxy far, far away. They obviously have medicinal capabilities that go far beyond what we have in our present era. Finn isn't going to be in a wheelchair or have nerve damage, Kylo isn't going to lose his arm because of saber slice to the shoulder. If he does lose one it won't be because of this.
@FrolickingFizzgig

My point is that they are sparing Finn from everything. He's the most morally superior brainwashed programmed child soldier eva who wakes up from serious injury like it;s no big deal, who earns everyone's trust within 3 seconds although he's sweating buckets of sweat, while all the evils of the world are poured onto Kylo's head. Bull!
@vaderito
I don't even care enough to complain about that because it's a matter of pure taste. People are different. Some are going to love Finn, some are going to love Kylo. Sadly there seems to be a lot of conflict between the two factions, but there is no argument to be made one way or the other. Taste is purely subjective. We all have preferences.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I can't like a character written as as Finn. Sorry. Everything I said is true. Every single word. He acts untrustworthy (shifting eyes + rivers of sweat) and everyone trusts him including people who don't trust anyone or very few people. he was brainwashed to believe one thing and act one way but he somehow believes another thing (without exposure to the alternative) and acts like Richie from Flashdance. Screw that.
@vaderito

I do agree with you. Finn is nice but he's a liar from the start, he tries to lie to Poe, he lies to Rey, he lies to Han, he lies to BB8.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Mana on Tue 10 May - 2:50

@BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito I think we will get Finn's past as a stormtrooper catching up with him in the next movie, along with the ethical issue of having killed his former brothers. It doesn't make sense for his character arc for him to just not care about that, especially if we are right in thinking his subplot will be to help liberate the FO's troopers. Thousands of them must have died on SKB, presumably many of them were his friends. If they don't show him caring about that, I will be very disappointed in the shallowness of his characterization.
@BastilaBey

I have a feeling they're not going to elaborate on Finn's internal conflict, as he had no real internal conflict to begin with, and that's the writers' fault.


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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by vaderito on Tue 10 May - 2:53

@Little_Boots he isn't even a convincing liar yet a seasoned smuggler, a seasoned Resistance fighter, a seasoned survivalist loner, a seasoned ex-Rebellion bigwig/Resistance bigwig trust him immediately! Why? How? Marty Stu right there! Terrible writing and terrible plot device of a character. They can't turn this crap around because momentum is lost. They were going to do something with Storm trooper-who-turned or they weren't and they chose to do nothing with it. His character arc was done and over with in the first 10 minutes. There's nothing else to tell.


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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 10 May - 2:53

@vaderito wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito I think we will get Finn's past as a stormtrooper catching up with him in the next movie, along with the ethical issue of having killed his former brothers. It doesn't make sense for his character arc for him to just not care about that, especially if we are right in thinking his subplot will be to help liberate the FO's troopers. Thousands of them must have died on SKB, presumably many of them were his friends. If they don't show him caring about that, I will be very disappointed in the shallowness of his characterization.
@BastilaBey

he doesn't care. he won't liberate anyone. And after shooting at them, they shouldn't follow him.
@vaderito
Finn should be given just as much of a chance to prove himself in the eyes of fans as Kylo. If he doesn't, that'll be that, but I'm personally not going to throw him under the bus because of some sloppy characterization in the first film. All the characters have two films left to redeem themselves. Character bashing also just makes me uncomfortable...
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by BastilaBey on Tue 10 May - 2:56

Given Rian Johnson's love of exploring moral ambiguity, I can see this being a core theme of each of our three lead characters' development in episode VIII. Both Rey and Finn were perceived as cinnamon rolls by the GA - I have faith that Johnson's writing will attempt to tear that down and build up their characters in a more genuine way. The same of course applies to Kylo, but from the opposite direction. Anyway, this isn't based on any new spoilers so probably doesn't belong in this thread.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by vaderito on Tue 10 May - 2:58

@Mana wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito I think we will get Finn's past as a stormtrooper catching up with him in the next movie, along with the ethical issue of having killed his former brothers. It doesn't make sense for his character arc for him to just not care about that, especially if we are right in thinking his subplot will be to help liberate the FO's troopers. Thousands of them must have died on SKB, presumably many of them were his friends. If they don't show him caring about that, I will be very disappointed in the shallowness of his characterization.
@BastilaBey

I have a feeling they're not going to elaborate on Finn internal conflict, as he had no real internal conflict to begin with, and that's the writers' fault.
@Mana

This. All of this. There's no internal conflict because his bloody conscious is clear. He didn't kill good guys. he only killed bad guys. End of discussion. he doesn't give a crap about his fellow Stormies and considering the size of that explosion, majority or all of those he grew up with died. And he's a hero who doesn't care.

@Frolickingfizzgig Talking about Kylo losing his arm while Mr Smooth Sail doesn't have a scratch from bigger injury make me VERY uncomfortable and really sets me off. I want to see bad sith happen to Finn for once. I want people to turn away from him because this trust circle jerk is ridiculous. I want him to be rejected at every turn. The opposite of lovefest he received in TFA. There.

@BastilaBey
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 10 May - 3:03

@vaderito wrote:
@Mana wrote:
@BastilaBey wrote:@vaderito I think we will get Finn's past as a stormtrooper catching up with him in the next movie, along with the ethical issue of having killed his former brothers. It doesn't make sense for his character arc for him to just not care about that, especially if we are right in thinking his subplot will be to help liberate the FO's troopers. Thousands of them must have died on SKB, presumably many of them were his friends. If they don't show him caring about that, I will be very disappointed in the shallowness of his characterization.
@BastilaBey

I have a feeling they're not going to elaborate on Finn internal conflict, as he had no real internal conflict to begin with, and that's the writers' fault.
@Mana

This. All of this. There's no internal conflict because his bloody conscious is clear. He didn't kill good guys. he only killed bad guys. End of discussion. he doesn't give a crap about his fellow Stormies and considering the size of that explosion, majority or all of those he grew up with died. And he's a hero who doesn't care.

@Frolickingfizzgig Talking about Kylo losing his arm while Mr Smooth Sail doesn't have a scratch from bigger injury make me VERY uncomfortable and really sets me off. I want to see bad sith happen to Finn for once. I want people to turn away from him because this trust circle jerk is ridiculous. I want him to be rejected at every turn. The opposite of lovefest he received in TFA. There.
@vaderito
I agree that there's a good chance they won't elaborate on it, but we'll have to wait and see. There are ways they could turn it around.

I understand why you personally dislike Finn, but I don't get the intense, visceral hatred. It's also not relevant to this thread.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by BastilaBey on Tue 10 May - 3:06

With the rumors about KMT's character being an FO double agent/spy, there's potential there for an interesting moment of realization on Finn's part. Once he finds out she's working for the Order, they could have a confrontation and she could call him out on his hypocrisy. It might be that it takes another character, especially one he's come to have feelings for, to show him how he left one side of the conflict to join the other with no real reflection. There's still plenty of time for them to do Finn justice. I don't want to think they had this great idea for a hero to come from the stormtroopers, with no real thought as to where it might go.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 10 May - 3:10

@BastilaBey wrote:With the rumors about KMT's character being an FO double agent/spy, there's potential there for an interesting moment of realization on Finn's part. Once he finds out she's working for the Order, they could have a confrontation and she could call him out on his hypocrisy. It might be that it takes another character, especially one he's come to have feelings for, to show him how he left one side of the conflict to join the other with no real reflection. There's still plenty of time for them to do Finn justice. I don't want to think they had this great idea for a hero to come from the stormtroopers, with no real thought as to where it might go.
@BastilaBey
This is just one of the many ways they could explore Finn's inner motivations and traits. There are lots of people who dislike Kylo currently who I believe will change their minds by the time Episode IX is out. I'm hoping the same can be said of Finn. New writer, new director. They could go in a lot of different directions.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Kessel on Tue 10 May - 6:42

Regarding Finn, I think JJ may have let John infuse too much of his own personality into the character which makes me wonder whether the writers really developed Finn's character very much. Luckily John is a funny and charasmatic guy and it added some lightness to the movie, but the amount of humor did not totally fit with the character.  It's like the writers wanted to do a cool twist (he's a stormie who defects!), but they didn't stop to think how an ST should act and feel (except superficially), especially one who was raised from birth to fight and kill by an organization like the FO.

When I first saw the movie, I bought Finn's panic and conflict up until the point he and Poe joined up, but then they got together, started cheering, shooting other STs, and became buddies in 5 seconds. I was a little shocked. Then when Finn met Rey it really went downhill, they became BFFs in 2.5 seconds and Finn became a funny, bubbly kid, except for a quick and sudden conflict with his past (at Maz's place) that compelety resolved itself in 5 minutes.  His nonchalance in killing his fellow ST was really glaring to me.  It almost makes me worry that JJ may have ruined Finn's chance to be their future liberator (because he doesn't really care about them).  Also, why did Finn call Han a war hero? I thought Finn was raised on FO propaganda; there is no way they taught him that a rebellion general was a war hero.

With that being said, if Finn is important, I think Rian will be able to make serious developments to the character. In general, Rian's characters are very well developed psychologically and are well fleshed out. I hope he does that with Finn, and gives Finn some nuance, internalization and motivation to fight the FO besides the insta-BFF connection to Rey and the Resistance.

@BastilaBey I really like some of your ideas for how Finn's character can be developed in episode VIII!
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 10 May - 7:12

Kessel89 wrote:Regarding Finn, I think JJ may have let John infuse too much of his own personality into the character which makes me wonder whether the writers really developed Finn's character very much. Luckily John is a funny and charasmatic guy and it added some lightness to the movie, but the amount of humor did not totally fit with the character.  It's like the writers wanted to do a cool twist (he's a stormie who defects!), but they didn't stop to think how an ST should act and feel (except superficially), especially one who was raised from birth to fight and kill by an organization like the FO.
@Kessel89

Let's not forget, also, that the writers changed along the way. I was interested to find out that Abrams and Kasdan apparently started from scratch when they took over from Arndt in November 2013 and wrote an entirely new script in two months. Alas, Finn's character development may have fallen by the wayside in this process. I think Abrams' vision was increasingly about the "Jedi Killer" when they wrote the new script; or at least the concept art suggests this.

No doubt Rian will do more with Finn, but I would argue there are limits to what he can do so that the Finn we see in VIII fits in with the Finn we saw in VII. He can't just suddenly wake up with more gravitas without it feeling fake.

Unless he really does have amnesia from the coma and struggles to find his identity in new surroundings!
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by CienaRee on Tue 10 May - 7:36

Kessel89 wrote:Regarding Finn, I think JJ may have let John infuse too much of his own personality into the character which makes me wonder whether the writers really developed Finn's character very much. Luckily John is a funny and charasmatic guy and it added some lightness to the movie, but the amount of humor did not totally fit with the character.  It's like the writers wanted to do a cool twist (he's a stormie who defects!), but they didn't stop to think how an ST should act and feel (except superficially), especially one who was raised from birth to fight and kill by an organization like the FO.

When I first saw the movie, I bought Finn's panic and conflict up until the point he and Poe joined up, but then they got together, started cheering, shooting other STs, and became buddies in 5 seconds. I was a little shocked. Then when Finn met Rey it really went downhill, they became BFFs in 2.5 seconds and Finn became a funny, bubbly kid, except for a quick and sudden conflict with his past (at Maz's place) that compelety resolved itself in 5 minutes.  His nonchalance in killing his fellow ST was really glaring to me.  It almost makes me worry that JJ may have ruined Finn's chance to be their future liberator (because he doesn't really care about them).  Also, why did Finn call Han a war hero? I thought Finn was raised on FO propaganda; there is no way they taught him that a rebellion general was a war hero.

With that being said, if Finn is important, I think Rian will be able to make serious developments to the character. In general, Rian's characters are very well developed psychologically and are well fleshed out. I hope he does that with Finn, and gives Finn some nuance, internalization and motivation to fight the FO besides the insta-BFF connection to Rey and the Resistance.

@BastilaBey I really like some of your ideas for how Finn's character can be developed in episode VIII!
@Kessel89

I agree I like Finn and believe there's still potential for his character but I have to be fair here and say that if they do a smilair job with Kylo
's redemption like they did with Finn's moral dilema in TFA it would be very bad writing.I mean imagine someone who's had abandonemnt issues,who was being slowsly brainwashed since he was a child suddenly start cracking up jokes and behaving like none of that ever happened and while I don't want them to throw Kylo in prison I wouldn't want everyone trusting him immediatly either.Some fans want Kylo's blood for killing Han yet they're completly ignorant of tehf act that Finn killed his fellow stormtroopers who're probably the closest thing he had to a family and was willing to risk many people's lives to save Rey yet Kylo's the only one who has to get redemption.Why is that?I get that he's suppose to be the villain but that shouldn't mean the heroes shouldn't question the decisions they make.

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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Kessel on Tue 10 May - 7:42

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@Kessel89

Heard for it yesterday, not the specifics.
But also red someone claimed it is fake as hell.
Confusion.
@Darth_Awakened

It's being reported by MSW and they say they can 'confirm the authenticity ' but take from it want you will... It sounds super silly to me, but I wouldn't be surprised. It sounds odd though that the other FO STs don't know about Finn's defection since STs in TFA like T8-TR did. What a 'cop out' that 'all the STs who knew about Finn's defection perished on SKB.' Also, I thought Finn's only ST friend was Slips, but Hardy is playing a ST 'elated' to see his old friend FN-2187?

@Mana wrote:
@Kessel89

wait....I thought it was Daisy that was supposed to get her a** slapped by a stormtrooper, when they were filming that thing for the charity thing
@Mana

Yeah, I know....I guess it's Finn's a** instead (if this rumor/spoiler is true). I guess Rey, Finn and BDt are infiltrating that base when it happens? So cheesy...
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Kessel on Tue 10 May - 8:59

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:Regarding Finn, I think JJ may have let John infuse too much of his own personality into the character which makes me wonder whether the writers really developed Finn's character very much. Luckily John is a funny and charasmatic guy and it added some lightness to the movie, but the amount of humor did not totally fit with the character.  It's like the writers wanted to do a cool twist (he's a stormie who defects!), but they didn't stop to think how an ST should act and feel (except superficially), especially one who was raised from birth to fight and kill by an organization like the FO.
@Kessel89

Let's not forget, also, that the writers changed along the way. I was interested to find out that Abrams and Kasdan apparently started from scratch when they took over from Arndt in November 2013 and wrote an entirely new script in two months. Alas, Finn's character development may have fallen by the wayside in this process. I think Abrams' vision was increasingly about the "Jedi Killer" when they wrote the new script; or at least the concept art suggests this.

No doubt Rian will do more with Finn, but I would argue there are limits to what he can do so that the Finn we see in VIII fits in with the Finn we saw in VII. He can't just suddenly wake up with more gravitas without it feeling fake.

Unless he really does have amnesia from the coma and struggles to find his identity in new surroundings!
@Darth Dingbat

This is so true. He's still going to be that comedy guy I'm sure. That silly MSW spoiler with Tom Hardy (who I love btw), really seems to reinforce that. I know it doesn't mean anything substantial and we don't have any context, but based on it, I don't think we'll be seeing anything very profound like amnesia or Finn's inner conflict regarding his FO past. Looks like he'll be hitting the ground running and infiltrating a FO base for other reasons. I guess Tom Hardy's ST character is lucky he doesn't realize Finn is a defector, otherwise Finn would have probably shot and killed his old friend...

It also looks like this scene might be connected to that Rey and Finn infiltrating a FO base with BDT spoiler? If so, I hope they don't overdo it with the Rey and Finn comedy adventure sequences.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Saracene on Tue 10 May - 9:16

Kessel89 wrote:Regarding Finn, I think JJ may have let John infuse too much of his own personality into the character which makes me wonder whether the writers really developed Finn's character very much. Luckily John is a funny and charasmatic guy and it added some lightness to the movie, but the amount of humor did not totally fit with the character.  It's like the writers wanted to do a cool twist (he's a stormie who defects!), but they didn't stop to think how an ST should act and feel (except superficially), especially one who was raised from birth to fight and kill by an organization like the FO.
@Kessel89

I think that, with Finn, the writers came up with a funny charming everyman character, and then slapped on the stormtrooper backstory at the last moment for plot reasons. That's honestly what it feels like to me. The reason his background feels so meaningless is because it's in the film for no other reason than to move the story from point A to point B.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Mana on Tue 10 May - 9:20

@Saracene wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:Regarding Finn, I think JJ may have let John infuse too much of his own personality into the character which makes me wonder whether the writers really developed Finn's character very much. Luckily John is a funny and charasmatic guy and it added some lightness to the movie, but the amount of humor did not totally fit with the character.  It's like the writers wanted to do a cool twist (he's a stormie who defects!), but they didn't stop to think how an ST should act and feel (except superficially), especially one who was raised from birth to fight and kill by an organization like the FO.
@Kessel89

I think that, with Finn, the writers came up with a funny charming everyman character, and then slapped on the stormtrooper backstory at the last moment for plot reasons. That's honestly what it feels like to me. The reason his background feels so meaningless is because it's in the film for no other reason than to move the story from point A to point B.
@Saracene

That's what I was thinking as well..I think JJ said in an interview or a press conference that he wanted to make Finn a smuggler/pilot, but then Lawrence Kasden came up with the Stormtrooper idea and they thought it was better....
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Darth Dingbat on Tue 10 May - 9:24

@Saracene wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:Regarding Finn, I think JJ may have let John infuse too much of his own personality into the character which makes me wonder whether the writers really developed Finn's character very much. Luckily John is a funny and charasmatic guy and it added some lightness to the movie, but the amount of humor did not totally fit with the character.  It's like the writers wanted to do a cool twist (he's a stormie who defects!), but they didn't stop to think how an ST should act and feel (except superficially), especially one who was raised from birth to fight and kill by an organization like the FO.
@Kessel89

I think that, with Finn, the writers came up with a funny charming everyman character, and then slapped on the stormtrooper backstory at the last moment for plot reasons. That's honestly what it feels like to me. The reason his background feels so meaningless is because it's in the film for no other reason than to move the story from point A to point B.
@Saracene

I think they didn't really know what they wanted from the character - I suspect they had different ideas and concepts and then tried to fit it all in without stopping to consider how inconsistent the combination seems. The oddest thing of all is the canon characterisation of Finn in Before the Awakening as a top-notch soldier, brave and leadership material, when this is not the character we get in TFA at all - nor in Episode VIII, it seems, if the butt-slapping scene is real.

In other words, they probably had two different characters in mind at some point - a top-of-his-class Stormtrooper with strong moral courage who doesn't want to work for the FO, and the funny charming everyman who isn't inherently brave at all. Putting such different concepts together just doesn't work.
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by EchoBase on Tue 10 May - 9:49

You are all right. This is what Lawrence Kasdan said in the interview:

“From the very beginning we sort of settled on very quickly that we wanted the girl, Rey, to be a scavenger. We always wanted her to be the ultimate outsider and the ultimate disenfranchised person, because that person has the longest journey… And then we were struggling to figure out who the male lead was going to be. I remember we talked about pirates and merchant marines and all this stuff, and finally Larry [Kasdan] got pissed at all of us and he’s just like, “You guys, you’re not thinking big. What if he’s a stormtrooper that ran away?'”

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-7-rey-finn-script-origins/
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Re: Discussion: Finn/FN-2187/John Boyega

Post by Kessel on Tue 10 May - 9:50

@Mana wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
Kessel89 wrote:Regarding Finn, I think JJ may have let John infuse too much of his own personality into the character which makes me wonder whether the writers really developed Finn's character very much. Luckily John is a funny and charasmatic guy and it added some lightness to the movie, but the amount of humor did not totally fit with the character.  It's like the writers wanted to do a cool twist (he's a stormie who defects!), but they didn't stop to think how an ST should act and feel (except superficially), especially one who was raised from birth to fight and kill by an organization like the FO.
@Kessel89

I think that, with Finn, the writers came up with a funny charming everyman character, and then slapped on the stormtrooper backstory at the last moment for plot reasons. That's honestly what it feels like to me. The reason his background feels so meaningless is because it's in the film for no other reason than to move the story from point A to point B.
@Saracene

That's what I was thinking as well..I think JJ said in an interview or a press conference that he wanted to make Finn a smuggler/pilot, but then Lawrence Kasden came up with the Stormtrooper idea and they thought it was better....
@Mana

Yes, I remember seeing or reading something stating that Kasdan had said something about thinking outside the box: make him a stormtrooper!  That's cool and all, but once they decided to go that route, they forgot to make it very compelling or believable. If Finn's FO past is a integral part of the story, they needed to be more cognizant of his personality.  Otoh, if they wanted him to be the Everyman with the comedic personality, I think it would have been better if he had been made a pirate or something (although to be honest, I don't see Finn as the pirate type either).

I know there seems to be this theme with the trio (Rey, Finn and Kylo) that they all had different childhoods, that Rey and Finn suffered, but they (especially Finn), came out of the oven as perfectly baked cinnamonrolls despite their 'terrible backgrounds' while Kylo supposedly came out all burned and charred despite 'his perfect childhood.'  I know this is just a fictional fantasy story, but the main problem I have with this 'theme' is it is too extreme and inexplicable when it comes to Kylo and Finn. Almost comical. That's why I hope the next movies will flesh this out and make these characters' dilemmas more logical than they are now.
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