Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by thescavenger on Thu 31 Mar - 17:48

@ashesforfoxes wrote:@Camaro if it's any consolation I am working (slowly but surely) on a manifesto for the fandom with a whole section on its trivialization.  In the context of modern views on the topic vs. historic treatment of women's work there are some great articles I'll be linking which basically nail down how using the most controversial examples within a subset of literature to define the whole and its audience is another form of marginalization and dismissal of the literary value of the genre.

This sounds brilliant!!
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by Camaro on Thu 31 Mar - 17:52

@ashesforfoxes wrote:@Camaro if it's any consolation I am working (slowly but surely) on a manifesto for the fandom with a whole section on its trivialization.  In the context of modern views on the topic vs. historic treatment of women's work there are some great articles I'll be linking which basically nail down how using the most controversial examples within a subset of literature to define the whole and its audience is another form of marginalization and dismissal of the literary value of the genre.

Whoa... more than consolation enough, I'm ecstatic. I can't wait, this is so necessary and I think probably the single most important type of meta for the fandom at the moment. Honestly, it's exactly what I've been dying to read.
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by vaderito on Thu 31 Mar - 17:57

Just proves that Reylo Community has the most creative people aboard. Reylo Meta + Fanart butt kickage continues. Which is why I'm offended when outsiders, who try to write about Reylo phenomenon, miss that part due to "All Shippers Are One or the Other Variation of Twitards" Goggles.
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by Ohtze on Thu 31 Mar - 18:11

@vaderito wrote:Just proves that Reylo Community has the most creative people aboard. Reylo Meta + Fanart butt kickage continues. Which is why I'm offended when outsiders, who try to write about Reylo phenomenon, miss that part due to "All Shippers Are One or the Other Variation of Twitards" Goggles.

I've never liked Twilight either (although like 50 shades, not for the reasons people usually hate it).
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by Airemyn on Thu 31 Mar - 18:36

@vaderito wrote:
@Ohtze wrote:@vaderito, I'm not the main mod for this forum (that would be @Airemyn), but please remember the forum rules against personal attacks (attacks against the poster/shipper instead of the theory are not allowed, see: [redacted] comment). Yes, this includes people we disagree with. I would prefer if you edited your comment yourself, but I leave this decision up to Airemyn and the admins, @Berhan, @Darth Rowan @MoonlitMoss.

Thanks.

Changed into antis. No worries, thanks for reminder.

Thank you both Thumbs up
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by ashesforfoxes on Thu 31 Mar - 19:14

Thanks for the support! If I had the guts and talent it would probably read something like this amazing piece but alas, I'm going to try and take it seriously.
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by Ohtze on Thu 31 Mar - 19:18

@ashesforfoxes wrote:Thanks for the support! If I had the guts and talent it would probably read something like this amazing piece but alas, I'm going to try and take it seriously.

Oh my god.
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by MeadowofAshes on Fri 1 Apr - 3:02

@Rimfaxe96 wrote:I'd just like to mention that Reylo is basically accepted or was at the very least perceived by the German general audience (maybe because of Kylo's at times quite gentle German voice synchronization?). Like, in the German Facebook page, they're calling Kylo out on his interest in Rey in any post that involves him. It's kind of bizarre to see a SW crowd not fighting over this topic to be honest.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say American men are the problem. To our culture of good old (cow)boys, complex, sensitive, Byronic Kylo is a sexual threat so they willfully ignore what's on screen. I can see how he wouldn't be perceived as a threat to some European audiences because, correct me if I'm wrong, they seem a bit more accepting of Kylo's "type".

(And Star Wars aside, Germans are awesome. Super friendly and so funny, at least the Stuttgart Germans. When we passed through for an overnight, the guys in my squadron were asking the bartender where the best adult clubs were, so I jokingly asked if he could point me in the direction of clubs with male dancers. Guy didn't miss a beat. He goes, "I don't think we have any here, but if you stick around after my shift..." Laughing )
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by MeadowofAshes on Fri 1 Apr - 3:07

@Ohtze wrote:
@vaderito wrote:Just proves that Reylo Community has the most creative people aboard. Reylo Meta + Fanart butt kickage continues. Which is why I'm offended when outsiders, who try to write about Reylo phenomenon, miss that part due to "All Shippers Are One or the Other Variation of Twitards" Goggles.

I've never liked Twilight either (although like 50 shades, not for the reasons people usually hate it).

I couldn't get beyond the first chapter of either. Both female protagonists annoyed me. I like to read/view things myself before passing judgment on moral content, and I had heard all the controversy over 50 Shades. To this day the only thing I can tell you for sure is that by the end of Chapter 1, the furthest I was able to force myself, I was convinced the most sadistic and abusive part of the book had to be the writing style.
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 10 Jul - 17:06

@Force22 wrote:
@nonesuch wrote:http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/03/reylo/471768/

Who's seen this?! I think it's pretty fair and balanced overall, and it's nice to see that he author actually interviewed Reylo fans to get their thoughts and opinions. It's so strange seeing the fandom get this kind of mainstream press exposure! It proves what we already suspected - people are very, very aware of the Reylo phenomenon and it's a decidedly big thing.

(I hope this is the right forum for this, btw - it's a tricky one to place since it's about the ship itself, if that makes sense. Feel free to move to somewhere more appropriate, if necessary!)

Thanks for the link!
The article is partially fair. What I don't like about it is that it insists that Reylo is shipping, as in wishing, desiring to see a pair together. It doesn't acknowledge that seeing the pair is a result of the way the movie was made. The article claims for instance that Rey and Finn are the obvious couple. And really, on a first viewing, it might look like it, but upon further analysis, there are no cinematic clues for a love story between Finn and Rey.

For me Reylo is not about wanting to see a pair together, but about understanding the core of the ST. It is about Kylo's redemption, and he and Rey will find a mid ground together.

So, I don't know, I think the article, with its focus on fanfiction and even Othze's meta (yay but not because it kind of dismisses it) that is not so much dedicated to film or Star Wars analysis, (edit: sorry, actually that's a pretty good essay and clearly shows moments of the movie, I hope some people read it, I was confusing it with another one that is more literary based). But I think the article thinks that the meta is picking at straws and extrapolating from it.  

I don't know, I think the article still reeks of the attitude that, in my opinion, is the real reason people hate Reylo; they think it's wishing, it's not cannon, it's a "wrong" way to see the movie (even though they don't say it's wrong, it's compared to Kylux, for instance, which is pure shipping, a totally different thing).
@Force22

Regarding Kylux...I really don't see it as they can't stand each other!
In the Loki fandom, there are a lot of Tony Stark/Loki fics ...and they work, because Loki in Norse Myth is gender fluid, and Tony struck me as adventurous sexually so to speak..BUT..

Who are we to tell people what they like? And if well written any 'ship' can work. I've read stories which I firmly believed wouldn't work, but were so beautifully written they were a joy to read.
This is 'FAN' fiction after all. And we are free to do what we like!! Smile
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 11 Jul - 17:12

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@Ohtze wrote:
@vaderito wrote:Just proves that Reylo Community has the most creative people aboard. Reylo Meta + Fanart butt kickage continues. Which is why I'm offended when outsiders, who try to write about Reylo phenomenon, miss that part due to "All Shippers Are One or the Other Variation of Twitards" Goggles.

I've never liked Twilight either (although like 50 shades, not for the reasons people usually hate it).

I couldn't get beyond the first chapter of either. Both female protagonists annoyed me. I like to read/view things myself before passing judgment on moral content, and I had heard all the controversy over 50 Shades. To this day the only thing I can tell you for sure is that by the end of Chapter 1, the furthest I was able to force myself, I was convinced the most sadistic and abusive part of the book had to be the writing style.
@MeadowofAshes

To be perfectly honest I avoided that book like the plague, because I have never been 'into' any fiction where one character is sexually brutalised by the other - I see it as abuse. The closest I got was the 'Sword of Truth' novels but in those the male protagonist wasn't in a willing sado masochistic relationship, he was being tortured. And the books turned out to be life affirming stories of people overcoming suffering and some of the most heinous characters being redeemed.
I do however,respect anyone who see that as their 'thing' - whatever turns you on!! But I ...okay I'm being brutally honest here...I wish they would stop seeing this relationship as 'teen fantasy'. I am a fifty something asexual woman. But I love this 'ship'. I love a good romance, even if it's something I'll never enjoy. And what I like about this is it seems like a story of redemption, through love. What's not to like? And being asexual doesn't stop me from fancying people, I fancied Han Solo like mad as a kid! Which is why I really really want his broken son to find happiness, and with someone who is what I would have liked to be when I was young.

Nothing wrong with teens by the way, some of them are more mature than me!
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Mon 11 Jul - 20:35

"If you want to give him [Kylo Ren] a heterosexual relationship with a prominent human being from The Force Awakens who’s not his mother, Rey’s the only contender."

I'm dying ROFL
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by Slade on Mon 11 Jul - 22:36

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@Rimfaxe96 wrote:I'd just like to mention that Reylo is basically accepted or was at the very least perceived by the German general audience (maybe because of Kylo's at times quite gentle German voice synchronization?). Like, in the German Facebook page, they're calling Kylo out on his interest in Rey in any post that involves him. It's kind of bizarre to see a SW crowd not fighting over this topic to be honest.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say American men are the problem. To our culture of good old (cow)boys, complex, sensitive, Byronic Kylo is a sexual threat so they willfully ignore what's on screen. I can see how he wouldn't be perceived as a threat to some European audiences because, correct me if I'm wrong, they seem a bit more accepting of Kylo's "type".

(And Star Wars aside, Germans are awesome. Super friendly and so funny, at least the Stuttgart Germans. When we passed through for an overnight, the guys in my squadron were asking the bartender where the best adult clubs were, so I jokingly asked if he could point me in the direction of clubs with male dancers. Guy didn't miss a beat. He goes, "I don't think we have any here, but if you stick around after my shift..." Laughing )
@MeadowofAshes

Bolded part:  Interesting idea, and I think a correct one.  I have to wonder if European men are as b***hurt as a lot of American men over the leads of TFA and Rogue 1 being females?
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by AppleCrumble122 on Mon 11 Jul - 23:25

@Slade wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@Rimfaxe96 wrote:I'd just like to mention that Reylo is basically accepted or was at the very least perceived by the German general audience (maybe because of Kylo's at times quite gentle German voice synchronization?). Like, in the German Facebook page, they're calling Kylo out on his interest in Rey in any post that involves him. It's kind of bizarre to see a SW crowd not fighting over this topic to be honest.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say American men are the problem. To our culture of good old (cow)boys, complex, sensitive, Byronic Kylo is a sexual threat so they willfully ignore what's on screen. I can see how he wouldn't be perceived as a threat to some European audiences because, correct me if I'm wrong, they seem a bit more accepting of Kylo's "type".

(And Star Wars aside, Germans are awesome. Super friendly and so funny, at least the Stuttgart Germans. When we passed through for an overnight, the guys in my squadron were asking the bartender where the best adult clubs were, so I jokingly asked if he could point me in the direction of clubs with male dancers. Guy didn't miss a beat. He goes, "I don't think we have any here, but if you stick around after my shift..." Laughing )
@MeadowofAshes

Bolded part:  Interesting idea, and I think a correct one.  I have to wonder if European men are as b***hurt as a lot of American men over the leads of TFA and Rogue 1 being females?
@Slade

Well I'm British and while I have no idea about the online situation, all of my male friends and colleagues  that I've spoken to enjoy Rey as a character and have no problems with her being the protagonist. Most of their complaints with TFA was that it was too similar to ANH. Same with Rogue One, the amount of men on my facebook friends list that were sharing the trailer on the day it came out and gushing over how excited they were was staggering. Not one complaint about Jyn either.
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by Slade on Tue 12 Jul - 2:23

@AppleCrumble122 wrote:
@Slade wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@Rimfaxe96 wrote:I'd just like to mention that Reylo is basically accepted or was at the very least perceived by the German general audience (maybe because of Kylo's at times quite gentle German voice synchronization?). Like, in the German Facebook page, they're calling Kylo out on his interest in Rey in any post that involves him. It's kind of bizarre to see a SW crowd not fighting over this topic to be honest.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say American men are the problem. To our culture of good old (cow)boys, complex, sensitive, Byronic Kylo is a sexual threat so they willfully ignore what's on screen. I can see how he wouldn't be perceived as a threat to some European audiences because, correct me if I'm wrong, they seem a bit more accepting of Kylo's "type".

(And Star Wars aside, Germans are awesome. Super friendly and so funny, at least the Stuttgart Germans. When we passed through for an overnight, the guys in my squadron were asking the bartender where the best adult clubs were, so I jokingly asked if he could point me in the direction of clubs with male dancers. Guy didn't miss a beat. He goes, "I don't think we have any here, but if you stick around after my shift..." Laughing )
@MeadowofAshes

Bolded part:  Interesting idea, and I think a correct one.  I have to wonder if European men are as b***hurt as a lot of American men over the leads of TFA and Rogue 1 being females?
@Slade

Well I'm British and while I have no idea about the online situation, all of my male friends and colleagues  that I've spoken to enjoy Rey as a character and have no problems with her being the protagonist. Most of their complaints with TFA was that it was too similar to ANH. Same with Rogue One, the amount of men on my facebook friends list that were sharing the trailer on the day it came out and gushing over how excited they were was staggering. Not one complaint about Jyn either.
@AppleCrumble122

Interesting, and good to hear, though your friends may not be representative of British men as a whole.  I hope they are.  I just cannot fathom getting so upset about a female lead character, taking it as some kind of "***" slam against men.  But I can't understand people who got upset over a black person being cast in a lead role,either.
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 14 Jul - 17:09

My brother loves all these characters, but he's a gay man with a strong passion for women's rights.
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by Slade on Thu 14 Jul - 17:19

I think the word I put in quotes was "feminist" and I put it in quotes because I was referring to how mens rights activists see feminists. Why was the word "feminists" censored? (Or am I misremembering the word I used?)
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Re: Reylo spotlighted by The Atlantic

Post by CienaRee on Thu 14 Jul - 17:44

This is a very interesting artciale called ''The Codding of the American Mind''which talks about how univercity students in US try  band topics or ideas that are uncomfortable for them which could explain why some of the US SW fans can't see Reylo as a potential romance or view Kylo as weak and pathetic:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/

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